On The Telly Now - Face Covering.

[NigelFargate]

I am not sure a ban would work well in the UK. France and Germany both have different legal cultures to those of the UK. These tend to enable the state to have a somewhat bigger role in imposing laws which restrict certain types of social behaviour and also freedom of speech. For example, this has been reflected in the rejection of the multicultural approach to diversity issues, as practised in the UK. Also, once something has gained a foothold, it is then difficult to remove it. There are also many muslim groups in the UK who are probably spoiling for a fight with the government and a burka ban would only inflame their sense of grievance and provide them with a cause to pursue. A ban would probably not be worth the trouble.

[L00b]

i havent dropped anything, and i never said it leads to terrorism, i said IT CAN and i stand by it,

Could have fooled me, there, mel:

funnily enough, which of those countries mentioned have face veils / hijabs / burkas banned and which face plenty of islamic extremist attacks.

 

lets think

 

ooh France and Germany, could there be a connection? hmmm

no matter how many people or how lesser people wear it the point i made you are alienating part of society, for what? absolutely nothing, it doesnt solve a thing. there isnt a major issue with people wearing it, apart from in the minds of islamophobes....which again this arguement has been sparked by that nutter bloke in UKIP

It helps stop its wider adoption amongst a Muslim population, however long-established or newly-arrived, growing more fundamentalist, thereby denying wahabists and their ilk the oxygen of publicity for harder Islam, that is associated with burqas slowly becoming the new normal (as it quite clearly is slowly and steadily doing over here).

 

Ever since there's been Saudi petrodollars, there's always been Yashmak'd Saudi wives splashing petrodollars in Knightsbridge. But in 20 years, I'd never seen a Yashmak'd driver filling up at Anston's Shell petrol station before last Saturday. Now, it's a free country, she can do what she likes, and I'm not judgemental in making that remark - just observational. But when it will be the norm for female Muslims, drivers or not, like in Saudi (for the few who are allowed to drive there, male-accompanied), maybe you'll see the point of the ban. Too late, like, but well...

 

For the rest, see my edits.

Edited April 24, 2017 by L00b

[Puggie]

there isnt a major issue with people wearing it, apart from in the minds of islamophobes.

 

I think the deep-rooted issue is probably cultural integration (or lack of) rather than islamophobia. The message for many decades has been 'we welcome you but please don't feel the need assimilate'. Essentially we've been encouraging cultural diversity without fully understanding the trade-offs for wider society and what that approach means for integration.

 

It's a very complex issue that requires deep understanding of the social sciences.

[NigelFargate]

I think the deep-rooted issue is probably cultural integration (or lack of) rather than islamophobia. The message for many decades has been 'we welcome you but please don't feel the need assimilate'. Essentially we've been encouraging cultural diversity without fully understanding the trade-offs for wider society and what that approach means for integration.

 

It's a very complex issue that requires deep understanding of the social sciences.

 

The mistake made by the proponents of multiculturalism (or rather most of them, because some at least might well have had a more sinister agenda) was to believe that integration would occur naturally over time, as it had done with previous immigrant groups. However, this ignored four factors: firstly, the sheer size of these new groups; secondly, the fact they tend to be concentrated in specific localities; thirdly the speed of their arrival; and fourthly, various forms of welfare support (infused with the values of multiculturalism), some of which encouraged them to retain their separate identities.

[melthebell]

I think the deep-rooted issue is probably cultural integration (or lack of) rather than islamophobia. The message for many decades has been 'we welcome you but please don't feel the need assimilate'. Essentially we've been encouraging cultural diversity without fully understanding the trade-offs for wider society and what that approach means for integration.

 

It's a very complex issue that requires deep understanding of the social sciences.

yes and has been said those that wear face coverings are only a small minority, its far more widespread and deeprooted than purely the hijab, all that is is a token gesture by politicians seen to be pandering to islamophobes as its something that can be seen.

On the other hand, other reasons for a lack of integration is poverty, racism, islamophobia, alienation, isolation from society (which is not always a chosen isolation, it can also be forced)

[spilldig]

I don't see how anyone wearing one can integrate. Seeing a persons face helps when you are having a conversation.

[OPEN BORDERS]

I don't see how anyone wearing one can integrate. Seeing a persons face helps when you are having a conversation.

 

And there endeth the argument.

[hauxwell]

I don't see how anyone wearing one can integrate. Seeing a persons face helps when you are having a conversation.

 

You have just said what I was thinking. Along with a few other thoughts, which I have already said in another thread.

[tinfoilhat]

I don't see how anyone wearing one can integrate. Seeing a persons face helps when you are having a conversation.

 

I sort of agree. We are being asked to integrate with something very alien to western society rather than the other way round. It's seen by many as oppressive to women.

 

On the other hand, we in the west have generally stopped telling women what to wear, so I'm on the fence a bit.

[Mister M]

I don't see how anyone wearing one can integrate. Seeing a persons face helps when you are having a conversation.

 

Well certainly it's an issue should that individual want to be a teacher, counsellor or other jobs where the reading of facial expressions is important.

 

Integration in society is a 2 way process. As well as a willingness for the individual to join civic society, members of the host community should be willing to welcome them.