Who's at fault here in this car crash

[kidley]

this has got me thinking

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4133368,-1.4022899,63a,35y,311.86h,45.06t/data=!3m1!1e3

[Mayfly182]

The black car is at fault.

The results of the poll are terrifying.

[RootsBooster]

I've been away from SF (and the recreational part of the internet) for several months, it's a little worrying and slightly saddening that so many people seem to have missed the clear lane markings and are blaming the white car.

Regardless of how vague or confusing the roundabout dashed lines may be, the lane markings prior to entry clearly show that the white car can turn left or stay in lane to continue forward, while the black car's lane clearly shows that it can only go straight ahead (stay in 2nd lane).

[woah]

I've been away from SF (and the recreational part of the internet) for several months, it's a little worrying and slightly saddening that so many people seem to have missed the clear lane markings and are blaming the white car.

Regardless of how vague or confusing the roundabout dashed lines may be, the lane markings prior to entry clearly show that the white car can turn left or stay in lane to continue forward, while the black car's lane clearly shows that it can only go straight ahead (stay in 2nd lane).

 

Agreed - what's odd is that those markings on the roundabout aren't just confusing, they're completely contradictory to the road markings on the approach. They definitely indicate that the left hand lane is designed for turning left only and not for going straight ahead.

 

Before 2012 the road markings on the roundabout were different, and did indicate that the left hand lane allowed the driver to go straight ahead. On that basis I think it was an intentional change in 2012 and somehow the road markings on the approach have never been updated to reflect this.

 

I think there's shared blame, the white car was correct to follow the road markings on the approach but should have also seen the road markings on the roundabout were different and followed the lane as directed on the roundabout. The black car made the opposite (perhaps worse) mistake in following the roundabout markings but not placing themselves in the correct lane on the approach.

[Huffty_500]

Everyone going on about the lane markings are simply acting like sheep, followers. The white car should have and could have easily anticipated the black car was going under the viaduct.

 

Right the way from learning to drive upto professional drivers, defensive driving is taught not attacking, not banzai moves at speed. People all acting like theyve never been in the wrong lane give over. Just because the black car was doesnt mean the white car wasnt in control of the situation and could have avoided it.

[spikeachu]

There's nothing wrong with the road markings. Thousands of cars traverse the roundabout correctly everyday without incident. The markings people are referring to are for the benefit of people entering the roundabout at a previous junction where both left and centre lanes can access the viaduct.

 

Anyone who wants to apportion any blame to the driver of the white car is entitled to their wrong opinion - just avoid using that roundabout eh?

[*_ash_*]

this has got me thinking

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4133368,-1.4022899,63a,35y,311.86h,45.06t/data=!3m1!1e3

 

No, I think probably someone has pointed this out earlier, but I've not read it

 

I can see what you are looking at here. The black car would have been in the correct lane if coming around the roundabout, but they didn't.

 

This what I was saying in the earlier post to you, that the traffic lights separate this particular flow of traffic.

 

---------- Post added 19-05-2017 at 22:52 ----------

 

There's nothing wrong with the road markings. Thousands of cars traverse the roundabout correctly everyday without incident. The markings people are referring to are for the benefit of people entering the roundabout at a previous junction where both left and centre lanes can access the viaduct.

 

There is. In the approach. It is crap.

 

When leaving Sainsbury's south roundabout there are 2 lanes.

 

Do you think I'm in the wrong if I predict that the right lane is ok for Bawtry road? (3rd exit)

 

The first time we see a road marking (if not covered in standing traffic) is just before the left lane splits into two (there aren't any signs on the side to say what lane goes where at any point).

 

-

 

I think that's reasonable assumption since this would match most roundabout approaches.

 

Who on here who lives in Sheffield will be honest (apart from reg users of it) knew before this thread that of the 2 lanes, you need to be in the left of the two, to exit any of the first 4 exits, but the right lane just M1S (exit 4) or further around?

Edited May 19, 2017 by *_ash_*
typos and clarity

[spikeachu]

 

There is. In the approach.

 

When leaving Sainsbury south roudabout there are 2 lanes.

 

Do you think I'm in the wrong if I predict that the right lane is for Bawtry road? (3rd exit)

 

The first time we see a road marking is just before the left lane splits into two (there aren't any signs on the side to say what lane goes where at any point).

 

-

 

I think that's reasonable assumption since this would match most roundabout approaches.

 

Who on here who lives in Sheffield (apart from reg users of it) knew before this thread that of the 2 lanes, the left one you can exit any of the first 4 exits, but the right lane just M1S (exit 4) or further around?

 

I was referring on the markings on the roundabout itself, which is the ones most people seem to be taking issue with and why people are suggesting that the white car should have turned onto the viaduct. I will concede that you have a 50/50 on Bawtry road until 50 yards before the entrance to the roundabout.

 

It doesn't really affect the incident in question, but even so, if you get the 50/50 wrong you are in the inside lane and have the option of going all the way around the roundabout or following normal safety process for changing lane on the roundabout. Yes, it's poor but it shouldn't be an accident causer.

[Chez2]

To be fair, the white car should not really be in the left lane to exit from the second exit no matter what the lane markings say. Basic common sense.

 

I drive round there a lot and the left lane used to be left turn only. Nobody used to take any notice and there has always been problems there. I can't remember when the marking changed to say left lane could go left or straight on. They have been like this for quite some years though.

 

If you were going on you wouldn't have expected the white car to keep so far to the left, almost starting to turn in the left lane on the viaduct. I know you have to have your wits about you when in that lane going either left or straight on.

 

Its much better now. It was awful before the traffic lights were put in. I had an 850 mini when I started driving in 1983. It was much harder to pull out there in rush hour traffic before there were traffic lights.

 

Edit - can anyone see the traffic lights on that clip? I can't see them. It looks like the black car was already on the roundabout so one of them must be in the wrong going through on red or both on amber.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Chez2

[*_ash_*]

I edited my post for clarity, so not sure at what point you quote it...

 

I was referring on the markings on the roundabout itself, which is the ones most people seem to be taking issue with and why people are suggesting that the white car should have turned onto the viaduct. I will concede that you have a 50/50 on Bawtry road until 50 yards before the entrance to the roundabout.

 

It doesn't really affect the incident in question, but even so, if you get the 50/50 wrong you are in the inside lane and have the option of going all the way around the roundabout or following normal safety process for changing lane on the roundabout. Yes, it's poor but it shouldn't be an accident causer.

 

Yes I know. My main issue is with the approach which causes confusion. The markings on the road aren't good though. As I said in an earlier post, they've corrected that confusing lane approach on the other side. It just needs this side sorting. There should be a gantry in the early 2 lane part to give people time to get into the correct lane.

 

(saying that, if I was taking M1N, I would never get in the lane that the black one was, and another reason why clear their fault)