Who's at fault here in this car crash

[Robbie Loving]

Taken from the Star here:

 

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/video-dramatic-two-car-smash-on-sheffield-s-tinsley-viaduct-captured-on-camera-1-8547715

 

Is the white car or the black car at fault?

 

 

 

(this has caused a nice argument on the Taxi forum)

 

Can't believe this thread it still ongoing.

 

The lane markings clearly show the black to be in the wrong, no matter whether people feel it is misleading once on the roundabout.

 

As for taxi drivers having a debate on it, well that shows the standard that a lot of them are upto on the Sheffield streets.

It's as concerning as not knowing where Handsworth or Beighton is.

[dmarriott1]

The fact that this is even a "debate" shows the low standard of basic roadcraft.

 

How would you suggest this could be improved?

[Fogey]

No, I'm not suggesting either of those scenarios.

 

I mean if the black car stays in the lane it's in in the video, but does not try to turn left (m1n). After it passes the exit for m1n, it has not changed lanes, but finds itself in the left most lane on the roundabout, immediately after the exit for m1n.

 

If the driver of the black car does as he is supposed to do he moves forward into the middle lane marked BWTRY, same as the lane he approached the roundabout in. He shouldn't be moving over into the left lane.

[Cyclone]

For a moment then - assume you wanted to go to the M1(s) from there.

 

The arrow points straight ahead. So you just follow it ahead and never get to the M1(S)?

 

I think there is a fundamental disconnect as to what people the arrows mean, which is very worrying

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2018 at 09:40 ----------

 

 

I cannot see how you can actually hold that idea in your head, and consider you are a competent driver.

 

 

 

No it wasn't. There is nothing at all that lets it cross the lane dividers. HC131 for a start says it's a bad idea...

 

 

 

Well not crossing lanes would be a start don't you think?

 

Can you see this image?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4136157,-1.4028546,3a,75y,52.64h,83.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXJ3FLwct8mrEXxEBwvCb3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Waldo]

If the driver of the black car does as he is supposed to do he moves forward into the middle lane marked BWTRY, same as the lane he approached the roundabout in. He shouldn't be moving over into the left lane.

 

I'm describing a situation where he stays in the same lane he entered the roundabout in. That lane becomes the left-most lane, immediately after the m1n exit, so in my scenario the black car would not be changing (moving over, as you put it) lanes.

[Fogey]

I'm describing a situation where he stays in the same lane he entered the roundabout in. That lane becomes the left-most lane, immediately after the m1n exit, so in my scenario the black car would not be changing (moving over, as you put it) lanes.

 

You’re not acting on ALL the information. The middle lane on approach becomes the middle lane on the roundabout. You should absolutely not be moving into the left hand lane.

[Obelix]

Can you see this image?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4136157,-1.4028546,3a,75y,52.64h,83.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXJ3FLwct8mrEXxEBwvCb3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

You mean with the AA van crossing the lanes? Whats wrong with that - provided the van indicated and looked - hes not getting in the way of another car as theres sufficient distance behind him to the other vehicles

[Waldo]

You’re not acting on ALL the information. The middle lane on approach becomes the middle lane on the roundabout. You should absolutely not be moving into the left hand lane.

 

But you wouldn't be moving in to it, the middle lane becomes the left most lane (after the exit for m1n); you do not need to switch lanes to get in to it, nor are there any white lines to cross, that would indicate you are switching lanes.

 

However, if you take 'lane' to be lane of road as delineated by white lines, the white car does change lanes (both in my scenario and in the video).

 

Do you understand lanes as being delineated by white lines, or do you have another idea of what a lane is?

[Fogey]

But you wouldn't be moving in to it, the middle lane becomes the left most lane (after the exit for m1n); you do not need to switch lanes to get in to it, nor are there any white lines to cross, that would indicate you are switching lanes.

 

However, if you take 'lane' to be lane of road as delineated by white lines, the white car does change lanes (both in my scenario and in the video).

 

Do you understand lanes as being delineated by white lines, or do you have another idea of what a lane is?

 

Again. you're not using ALL the information. Approaching in the middle lane marked for BWTRY you should be continuing in the lane marked BWTRY not switching over into the lane marked RTHAM. You are switching lanes. You should not be choosing to ignore information because it is inconvenient.

[Waldo]

Again. you're not using ALL the information. Approaching in the middle lane marked for BWTRY you should be continuing in the lane marked BWTRY not switching over into the lane marked RTHAM. You are switching lanes. You should not be choosing to ignore information because it is inconvenient.

 

You've not answered my question, how are you defining a 'lane'?

 

I'm thinking of a lane as the bit of road between two white lines; I imagine you consider a lane to be something else?

 

For example: https://goo.gl/images/CpSQBH

 

Again. The lane which joins the roundabout as the middle lane *IS* the lane that is left most, after the exit for m1n. Of course, if you have different idea of what constitutes a lane, you may not agree with this assertion.

 

Hope that helps!