Who's at fault here in this car crash

[Obelix]

You dont move into someone elses lane without indicating which is what the white car did.

 

As for the arrows on approach - what if the black car never came up that road and was going round the roundabout? He was following his lane, and the white car moved into it. The markings on the entrance to the roundabout are irrelevant really. If there were arrow markings on the roundabout itself that would be of more use however.

[*_ash_*]

Totally wrong.

 

The white car can either turn first left or second left (which is classed as straight on according to the road markings. From the centre lane the black car can go second left as he tried to do or straight on. Just look at the lane markings the white car hops into the Black car's lane. White totally at fault.

 

 

No he didn't. He tried to turn left from the middle lane.

 

And your first line (which is right as it happens) says that the white car in the left lane can go left or take second exit.

 

Google isn't god and you are wrong

 

I pointed out that google isn't up to date (or not same as the video shows)

 

100% the white car is at fault, the lane he was in was for left turn only. The lane the black car was in was for straight on or left. Just look a google and lane markings.

 

---------- Post added 17-05-2017 at 22:55 ----------

 

Use the google overview, not street view as this shows all the lane markings.

 

 

Forget google maps, there is a video of it!!

 

Pause the film at 10 seconds and you can quite clearly see that the white car was in a lane that is painted at M1N and Roth. And arrows that show left or ahead.

 

I ****ing hope none of you work for insurance companies!

 

---------- Post added 18-05-2017 at 01:29 ----------

 

You dont move into someone elses lane without indicating which is what the white car did.

 

As for the arrows on approach - what if the black car never came up that road and was going round the roundabout? He was following his lane, and the white car moved into it. The markings on the entrance to the roundabout are irrelevant really. If there were arrow markings on the roundabout itself that would be of more use however.

 

cross-posted with you but I was posting somewhere else.

 

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Really Obelix? I think I've lost faith in SF decent posters

[martin6]

You dont move into someone elses lane without indicating which is what the white car did.

 

As for the arrows on approach - what if the black car never came up that road and was going round the roundabout? He was following his lane, and the white car moved into it. The markings on the entrance to the roundabout are irrelevant really. If there were arrow markings on the roundabout itself that would be of more use however.

 

The roundabout is traffic light controlled, the black car was not coming round

 

---------- Post added 18-05-2017 at 01:58 ----------

 

I can't believe how many drivers ignore road markings, instead opting for "default" roundabout rules. It is clearly marked in the video

[Obelix]

The roundabout is traffic light controlled, the black car was not coming round

 

---------- Post added 18-05-2017 at 01:58 ----------

 

I can't believe how many drivers ignore road markings, instead opting for "default" roundabout rules. It is clearly marked in the video

 

The white car did ignore the road markings - he crossed the dividing line on the lanes.

[peak4]

The white car did ignore the road markings - he crossed the dividing line on the lanes.

 

On the approach to the roundabout, the lane arrows clearly state that the left hand approach lane is straight on for Rotherham (as well as left turn along the bottom deck).

ergo, on the way into the roundabout he was in the correct lane; see my earlier post for the changes in the way the road lanes were marked out a few years ago.

At one time the left hand approach lane used to left only, but that gave no sensible way to go straight on to Rotherham. The trouble is that there are 2 different straight on routes, Rotherham, and Bawtry Rd.

Previously there seemed to be 2 left turns, bottom deck and Rotherham, with just one straight on up Bawtry Rd.

 

Edited to correct Rd name to Bawtry instead of Meadowbank

Edited May 18, 2017 by peak4

[mafya]

Black car is in the Wrong, I use this roundabout a couple of times a week and I use the lane the black car uses to turn onto bawtry road......

[WarPig]

To be fair, the white car should not really be in the left lane to exit from the second exit no matter what the lane markings say. Basic common sense.

 

And here is the basis of my point WP.

Common sense isn't always prevalent in drivers, but people who are on the road for their job MAY have a bit more idea of road layouts and junctions than occasional drivers/ 9-5 office workers.

 

But the white car couldn't have been in any other lane to go straight on/take the 2nd exit. If he had positioned himself in the centre lane with the black car he would have found himself in the completely wrong lane once on the roundabout to take the 2nd exit. He would immediately have been trying to get back over into the left lane. The centre lane with the black car is for taking the 3rd exit Bawtry Rd or the 4th exit to M1(S).

 

So why would anyone go in the centre lane to take the 2nd exit, only to have to move back over again?

Edited May 18, 2017 by WarPig

[Cyclone]

Have a drive on there tomorrow in the same direction.

 

He's right. It's quite clear on google, I already posted the links (on page 1) of the junction and the bit of road they were on.

 

---------- Post added 18-05-2017 at 07:32 ----------

 

I'll let you know tomorrow but still think your wrong

 

You can just look on google.

 

---------- Post added 18-05-2017 at 07:35 ----------

 

I forgot I put a poll in it I've just looked and 60% think the white car was at fault!

 

WTF?!

 

This is almost the same as the taxi forum percentage of responses.

 

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I think I'm going to have to look at this again. If the majority on both forums say the white car is at fault, then I'm starting to think I might be wrong

 

I'd change my vote if I could. If you just look at the incident itself, then it appears that the white car is at fault.

If you go back and look at the road markings earlier, then it isn't.

So the road markings are bad, and I voted too quickly.

 

---------- Post added 18-05-2017 at 07:43 ----------

 

At least we can all agree that it's a badly designed roundabout. There are 3 lanes on that approach all signed either straight on or right, but white lines on the roundabout don't guide cars into the correct position.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Meadowhall+Rd,+Sheffield+S9+1EQ/@53.4137787,-1.4025672,3a,60y,243.45h,78.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-KbnTrRyRzBOnOkgadp7Gg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x4879779c3e19ddf1:0xbe8d71f8bb31a328!8m2!3d53.4224984!4d-1.4099957

[WarPig]

If you just look at the incident itself, then it appears that the white car is at fault.

If you go back and look at the road markings earlier, then it isn't

 

True. The lane separation markings once on the roundabout are contradictory to the arrow markings on the road surface on the approach to the roundabout. But if the black car always intended to turn left then why did he ignore his lane markings/arrows? He didn't comply with the arrows on the road surface at all. Maybe he thought he'd chance it in the hope the white car would be turning left? Or maybe he changed his mind at the last minute and decided to go left, thinking the lane markings on the roundabout allowed him to do so? Even so, he should have done a left shoulder check and checked his blind spot.

 

But, because I drive that roundabout a lot, I see this quite often. Cars position themselves in the wrong lane in the hope that cars cars on the inside of them will be going down the viaduct, which then allows them to also go down the the viaduct in the second lane. It's a good way for them to make progress. Most of the time they get away with it, but not always.

 

---------- Post added 18-05-2017 at 07:51 ----------

 

The trouble is that there are 2 different straight on routes, Rotherham, and Meadowbank Rd.

Previously there seemed to be 2 left turns, bottom deck and Rotherham, with just one straight on up Meadowbank.

 

It's not Meadowbank Rd, it's Bawtry Rd. I think Meadowbank Rd is off the roundabout at the other end of the viaduct.

 

But your right about the black car being at fault.

Edited May 18, 2017 by WarPig

[LOLBROO]

True. The lane separation markings once on the roundabout are contradictory to the arrow markings on the road surface on the approach to the roundabout. But if the black car always intended to turn left then why did he ignore his lane markings/arrows? He didn't comply with the arrows on the road surface at all. Maybe he thought he'd chance it in the hope the white car would be turning left?

 

But, because I drive that roundabout a lot, I see this quite often. Cars position themselves in the wrong lane in the hope that cars cars on the inside of them will be going down the viaduct, which then allows them to also go down the the viaduct in the second lane. It's a good way for them to making progress. Most of the time they get away with it, but not always.

 

look at these Google road markings:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4133649,-1.403555,77m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

left lane turns left right lane turns right and centre lane goes ahead or right. Surely that puts them both in the wrong

Edited May 18, 2017 by LOLBROO
clarification