Are the Tories trying to lose the election?

[tinfoilhat]

And 'magic money tree' returns. And people say the media doesn't influence us?

 

Why can't anyone with a critical mind share that view? Are you saying he's an idiot who can't think for himself? There's a phenomenal amount of spending in the labour manefesto that corbyn wants to do when we're about to hit the most economically (and socially no doubt) uncertain time in our history since the Second World War. How anyone can guarentee the status quo let alone huge investment is lying or deluded, or has a magic money tree!

[panzer1]

Of course most of this is academic because the result will hinge on 30 or 40 marginal seats, held by MPs from both parties none of which are near here. Unless you have an insight into how those voters think then we are just guessing.

Scotland however is another ball game. I was recently on holiday and there were two Scots families there who detest Sturgeon. I pointed out that somebody must be voting for her. They said that Scots were getting more disillusioned, the SNP have their own budget,can set their own fiscal targets yet nothing has improved they just bang on about independence. That's why up there it's a straight unionist/ independence fight, SNP for Indy Tory for union and the tories hope to get up to 12 seats on that ticket.

In Scotland labour are a spent force so your arguments here do not count north of the border.

[L00b]

I think hope is dead in this country.

Hoping is quintessentially human. It'll only die when the human race does.

Just look at the leaders. Out of a country of 65 million, they're the best we've got. Not as bad as trump, but it's crap choice, with crap ahead. Quite literally hopeless, who ever wins, unless - joy of joys, theres a hung parliament and we go again.

They're not. They're who the party machines and their respective backers have installed.

 

It's up to every voter to change that, with voting rather than abstention, FPTP notwithstanding. There's no such thing as a wasted vote. The only vote ever wasted, is that which could be cast on the day, but wasn't, whether through apathy or idiocy.

 

It can be done. We did in France last month. After decades upon decades of Tory/Labour switching, we now have an independent centrist, picking policies from both sides in the national interest, for President. Hope carried Macron, not manifestos or lobbyists.

Why can't anyone with a critical mind share that view? Are you saying he's an idiot who can't think for himself? There's a phenomenal amount of spending in the labour manefesto that corbyn wants to do when we're about to hit the most economically (and socially no doubt) uncertain time in our history since the Second World War. How anyone can guarentee the status quo let alone huge investment is lying or deluded, or has a magic money tree!

There hasn't been a status quo left to guarantee since March 29, 2017. It's too late for that. Edited June 2, 2017 by L00b

[panzer1]

Macron is just a replacement for Hollande and his backers.

[sgtkate]

Why can't anyone with a critical mind share that view? Are you saying he's an idiot who can't think for himself? There's a phenomenal amount of spending in the labour manefesto that corbyn wants to do when we're about to hit the most economically (and socially no doubt) uncertain time in our history since the Second World War. How anyone can guarentee the status quo let alone huge investment is lying or deluded, or has a magic money tree!

 

It's just the use of the phrase has come from nowhere to suddenly in about every 1 in 10 posts that's all. People should question Corbyn's figures as tehy should question all the parties figures. Labours numbers do not include the nationlisation program which seems odd seeing as the rest of it is costed (perhaps wishfully)

 

---------- Post added 02-06-2017 at 15:07 ----------

 

Macron is just a replacement for Hollande and his backers.

 

Perhaps, but his approach to try to reconcile France by building a cabinet from both middle, left and right parties is admirable.

[panzer1]

Call me suspicious but I think Hollande realised a couple of years ago he was out of any election so Macron, a serving member of his govt, " left " and founded his own party then gets elected.

I admit I do not know enough about French politics to have an opinion of worth because I believe we and the French are as different as chalk and cheese hence why most Europeans cannot understand why we are brexiting , we just do not think like the Europeans.

[truman]

It's just the use of the phrase has come from nowhere to suddenly in about every 1 in 10 posts that's all. People should question Corbyn's figures as tehy should question all the parties figures. Labours numbers do not include the nationlisation program which seems odd seeing as the rest of it is costed (perhaps wishfully)

 

 

The IFS has poo poo'd both main parties' figures.... I think it's Lah Lah land from both of them...

[panzer1]

Agreed but far more poo on labours fiscal figures.

 

---------- Post added 02-06-2017 at 15:23 ----------

 

Betfair odds Tory majority have increased from 1/5 to 1/9 since this morning.

 

---------- Post added 02-06-2017 at 15:24 ----------

 

Labour have gone from 5/1 to 6/1

[banjodeano]

Well even the IFS, which he admires,They are independent etc have rubbished his fiscal calculations. So where will the money come from other than the magic money tree, a novel term which I am only borrowing, I suppose I could use the mythical money chest but hey you get the drift.

 

---------- Post added 02-06-2017 at 14:33 ----------

 

Tinfoil you are so right.

 

i think that is unfair, from what i have read, they have questioned parts of it, but to say it has been rubbished is a bit extreme..

But Corbyn has challenged the Tories to volunteer their fiscal calculations with his own.............so far they have refused, well if it turns out theirs is as bad, they cant condemn labours own policy.

The Tories are offering nothing, they will not put their own on the table to be studied, now they say there is going to be a cap on pensioners houses to pay for care, but they will not say what the cap will be...

all they are offering are soundbites and a personal campaign against Corbyn...very poor

[L00b]

Macron is just a replacement for Hollande and his backers.

Hamon was the replacement, with and for the same backers.

 

He did not even make the 2nd round, and lost to (harder left) Mélenchon in the popularity stakes at the 1st round (!)

Call me suspicious but I think Hollande realised a couple of years ago he was out of any election so Macron, a serving member of his govt, " left " and founded his own party then gets elected.

Sure, that's why Macron was continually dumped on by Hollande's party (Socialists, i.e. 'Labour' in France) and Mélenchon, and derided/written off by the main right (Republicains, i.e. 'Tories' in France) and the FN.

 

I can't begin to explain to you how much of a political and culture shock neither the Republicains (Fillon) nor the Socialists (Hamon) making the 2nd round of the presidential election was.

 

The closest analogy, is neither May nor Corbyn making it into No.10, but Farron or Sturgeon instead.

 

I admit I do not know enough about French politics to have an opinion of worth because I believe we and the French are as different as chalk and cheese hence why most Europeans cannot understand why we are brexiting, we just do not think like the Europeans.

Sadly, how wrong you are.

 

Why do you think Marine Le Pen polled into the 40ies before the 1st round?

 

Or do you think it's just Brits who don't like mass immigration, refugees (of which you ain't seen many at all over here), cuts to services (of which they ain't seen many at all over there) and the widening rich/poor gap?