The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[Cyclone]

Are they wrong? Honest question. I'm where I am due to a series of poor decisions I made, not because of the eu, not because of Cameron or Blair or brown or even thatcher. As an aside I don't think the eu or any future prime minister will make my life better. Will leaving the eu or a different prime minister make your life better?

 

Social mobility has been falling for some time now, but it's not down to the EU, it's down to the conservatives.

 

---------- Post added 03-11-2017 at 07:38 ----------

 

It’s nowt to do with socialism except when you think everybody is a socialist, it is a core liberal principle that one can and should apply themselves to their ability and achieve this through schooling.

 

The undeserving poor, who just didn't work hard enough however is a core right wing view, and required in order to a) look down on and then b) punish the poor.

Someone who's retired already probably went to school in the 50's and 60's, they had segregation (ie grammar schools) and they had expectations of children amongst the working class getting a job and contributing to the family by age 16. Bettering yourself through education I'm sure was a thing, but university was very much restricted to the (much smaller) middle classes.

[Sidonica]

Social mobility has been falling for some time now, but it's not down to the EU, it's down to the conservatives.

 

---------- Post added 03-11-2017 at 07:38 ----------

 

 

The undeserving poor, who just didn't work hard enough however is a core right wing view, and required in order to a) look down on and then b) punish the poor.

Someone who's retired already probably went to school in the 50's and 60's, they had segregation (ie grammar schools) and they had expectations of children amongst the working class getting a job and contributing to the family by age 16. Bettering yourself through education I'm sure was a thing, but university was very much restricted to the (much smaller) middle classes.

 

I went to a grammar school in the 60's and the majority were from working class families. Many went into the sixth form (not me) and then onto university. I was expected to leave at 16 and get a job, which I did along with everyone else (there were plenty of jobs back then) and many then went on to better jobs. A friend from junior school failed the 11 plus and went to secondary modern, she later went to university and became a lawyer.

The opportunities that existed then aren't here now, mainly due to the lack of jobs where people can progress up the ladder.

[tzijlstra]

Social mobility has been falling for some time now, but it's not down to the EU, it's down to the conservatives.

 

---------- Post added 03-11-2017 at 07:38 ----------

 

 

The undeserving poor, who just didn't work hard enough however is a core right wing view, and required in order to a) look down on and then b) punish the poor.

Someone who's retired already probably went to school in the 50's and 60's, they had segregation (ie grammar schools) and they had expectations of children amongst the working class getting a job and contributing to the family by age 16. Bettering yourself through education I'm sure was a thing, but university was very much restricted to the (much smaller) middle classes.

 

Thank the lord it is 2017 and we have plenty systems in place for people to deploy themselves!

 

BTW - isn't it funny that the leavers are continuing their attempts at character assassination yet fail to answer the replies to their rhetorical questions? Would be nice to see Jeffrey answering the NHS reply or Car Boot answering the fraud reply or ENG601 answering the education reply.

 

I suppose it is easier to put fingers in your ears and shout Na na Na nA

[I1L2T3]

Bit of a rant there ,please calm yourself .I simply asked Ez8004 what his background was . I never spoke about wanting to destroy peoples lives , never spoke of privilege or unfair advantage . You call me "twisted as hell" ,well its not me who is constantly accusing people from lesser backgrounds of being lazy and not doing enough to better themselves , its not me whos accusing the lesser educated of being stupid . I think you will find that Ez8004 is the one who does . " behaving like you're in a cult " stop being silly . I really couldn't care less if anyone is rich or poor ,educated or uneducated , no envy from me

 

I’ve never accused anyone of being lazy. People make the best of the opportunities they have, and for many in deprived areas a rational choice is to max their benefits and tax credits.

 

A key theme on this thread recently is the idea that middle earners are an elite who should be taken down a peg or two. I’m just pointing out where a big chunk of the tax and NI comes from - middle earners.

 

Brexit does seem to be like a cult, because the reasons for supporting it defy reason and logic. How is it magically going to provide more opportunities for people in deprived areas, especially if implemented by people like Johnson, Davis and Fox.

 

The sense of entitlement is not from people like me.

 

---------- Post added 03-11-2017 at 09:11 ----------

 

I'm pretty sure that if the 58 economic impact assessments the Government were so eager to keep secret had contained anything remotely like good news for the UK economy they'd have been leaked right, left and centre by Johnson, Fox et al and the Mail, Express, Telegraph and Murdoch press would have been full of headlines of our impending post Brexit economic miracle.

 

They’re clearly going to be disastrous. 58 separate studies. 58 separate areas of the economy borked.

 

A PM so weak she cannot publish any of it in the national interest.

 

Terrible times. Like others have said the EU will have done parallel studies. They’ll know all our weak points anyway, and know how to drive the hardest possible bargain.

[L00b]

A key theme on this thread recently is the idea that middle earners are an elite who should be taken down a peg or two. I’m just pointing out where a big chunk of the tax and NI comes from - middle earners.

Not to forget (but easily missed by most), what makes the UK economy go round at the local level (and ultimately at the national level, in aggregate form): consumption.

 

All your local restaurants, hairdressers, trades people <etc, etc.>, who do they earn most of their money from? middle earners (be they active or retired).

 

Reduce middle earners' earnings, and so-

down their disposable income goes,

down their consumption goes,

down the local traders' earnings go,

down the local traders' taxable income go (but up goes their taking part in the black economy),

down their local traders' requirements for employees or apprentices, investments, etc. go.

 

Elementarily-simple causes and consequences.

 

But envy is hardly rational, so I don't expect the green-eyed brigade to care much: it's all about dragging everyone down into the race to the bottom promoted by their political masters.

[Car Boot]

A young child looks up at his father and asks: 'How did you vote in the referendum, Daddy?'

 

The father looks tenderly at his son, thinks for a moment, and then replies: 'I voted to give power back to the national electorate. To ensure that the wishes of the people are not overridden by a supranational institution, with undemocratic structures and a fig leaf parliament. I voted to leave.'

 

Elsewhere, in more luxurious surroundings, another father is asked the same question, this time by his young daughter. Without thinking, the father replies: 'I voted to remain because I believe its better for my pocket. The world's most powerful bank, Goldman Sachs, wants us to stay in too.'

 

I voted to leave the EU because I believe that it has contributed to the stagnation of wages, increased austerity in the public services and transformed communities without consultation or consent.

[tzijlstra]

A young child looks up at his father and asks: 'How did you vote in the referendum, Daddy?'

 

The father looks tenderly at his son, thinks for a moment, and then replies: 'I voted to give power back to the national electorate. To ensure that the wishes of the people are not overridden by a supranational institution, with undemocratic structures and a fig leaf parliament. I voted to leave.'

 

Elsewhere, in more luxurious surroundings, another father is asked the same question, this time by his young daughter. Without thinking, the father replies: 'I voted to remain because I believe its better for my pocket. The world's most powerful bank, Goldman Sachs, wants us to stay in too.'

 

I voted to leave the EU because I believe that it has contributed to the stagnation of wages, increased austerity in the public services and transformed communities without consultation or consent.

 

How about actually addressing the replies to your melodramatic posts?

[L00b]

I voted to leave the EU because I believe that it has contributed to the stagnation of wages, increased austerity in the public services and transformed communities without consultation or consent.

Congratulations, you are fully entitled to your beliefs, and to express them however you see fit

 

Meanwhile, back in the real world, money continues to talk, and Brexs**t continues to walk.

 

March 2017: Vauxhall sold: Peugeot plays down job cuts and Brexit fears

 

October 2017: Vauxhall to cut 400 jobs at Ellesmere Port

 

I wonder how the Ellesmere Port ex-employee Daddy would reply to his child. "I voted Brexit and it is my own fault" or "I voted remain and it is Car Boot's fault"?

 

What do you think?

 

It's certainly a pity you can't be made liable to pay for part of his redundancy package. Just to see if you'd be the talking type or the walking type

[I1L2T3]

A young child looks up at his father and asks: 'How did you vote in the referendum, Daddy?'

 

The father looks tenderly at his son, thinks for a moment, and then replies: 'I voted to give power back to the national electorate. To ensure that the wishes of the people are not overridden by a supranational institution, with undemocratic structures and a fig leaf parliament. I voted to leave.'

 

Elsewhere, in more luxurious surroundings, another father is asked the same question, this time by his young daughter. Without thinking, the father replies: 'I voted to remain because I believe its better for my pocket. The world's most powerful bank, Goldman Sachs, wants us to stay in too.'

 

I voted to leave the EU because I believe that it has contributed to the stagnation of wages, increased austerity in the public services and transformed communities without consultation or consent.

 

The EU is not perfect. The question is do you try and fix it from the inside. Outside of it there is no chance, and if you feel like you’re under the yoke of the EU you have seen nothing yet. The terms of access for over half of our our current export market are likely to be stringent, and the fabled free market nirvana outside of the EU doesn’t exist. The Legatum cover story of using the UK to disrupt the global balance of trade is a sham cover story for creating maximum financial market chaos by the same kinds of people who caused the global financial crisis a decade ago.

 

You’ve been conned. Just realise that and give up trying to con everybody else.

[Guest]

Congratulations, you are fully entitled to your beliefs, and to express them however you see fit

 

Meanwhile, back in the real world, money continues to talk, and Brexs**t continues to walk.

 

March 2017: Vauxhall sold: Peugeot plays down job cuts and Brexit fears

 

October 2017: Vauxhall to cut 400 jobs at Ellesmere Port

 

I wonder how the Ellesmere Port ex-employee Daddy would reply to his child. "I voted Brexit and it is my own fault" or "I voted remain and it is Car Boot's fault"?

 

What do you think?

 

It's certainly a pity you can't be made liable to pay for part of his redundancy package. Just to see if you'd be the talking type or the walking type

 

Do you think that the prosperity of this country should be linked to membership of a club of other countries, the political nature of which we cannot control?