Hairyloon Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I think Labour really need to decide what their official position is as I've not got a clue at the moment. http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) I can't see us staying in the EU but a transitional arrangement makes sense and I can see May u-turning away from the hard Brexit option.It's not her call, nor the UK's, to make any more. Hasn't been since March 29, 2017. All the UK can do is propose, and the EU27 will dispose. The UK, led by Ms May or another, has got a year and 9 months to (try and-) make the best of the situation in which it put itself. Simple as. There is no coming back from Article 50, nor any deal (transitional or otherwise), unless on terms set and agreed by each of the EU27 and the EU (Parliament). And imperatively before April 1, 2019: there's no point whatsoever fast-tracking a deal, once the UK is de facto out, and the only legal way 'back in' after that date, is through Article 49 (straightforward new application as a third party country). I'd suggest the Tories put down the handbags and get down to brass tacks. Soon. Because if they think the EU27 and the EU are going to wait for them, extend the Article 50 deadline, and generally work along the UK's own timescales... Edited June 30, 2017 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017 So is there official position to leave the single market or not? I've read their manifesto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyloon Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 So is there official position to leave the single market or not? I've read their manifesto What did it say? Perhaps quote it direct if it is not clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 What did it say? Perhaps quote it direct if it is not clear. Sure: We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first. So that to me says they will try to remain a part of the single market, yet Corbyn has just ordered his MPs to vote in favour of leaving it and has now sacked MPs for trying to vote against leaving it, hence my confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyloon Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 So that to me says they will try to remain a part of the single market, yet Corbyn has just ordered his MPs to vote in favour of leaving it and has now sacked MPs for trying to vote against leaving it, hence my confusion. Yep that is what it says to me... and I cannot find anywhere that it says different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobinfoot Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I can't understand what the argument is. We voted to leave the EU. I voted to remain but fully understood that if we voted to leave it meant leaving entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Yep that is what it says to me... and I cannot find anywhere that it says different. I'm not sure what value our last few comments had? Did you have any insight as to why Labour seems to have changed it's policy or were you just trying to test me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) I can't understand what the argument is. We voted to leave the EU. I voted to remain but fully understood that if we voted to leave it meant leaving entirely.You can drop the pretence whenever you feel like it. I'm not sure what value our last few comments had? Did you have any insight as to why Labour seems to have changed it's policy or were you just trying to test me? Seems to me that it is your typical political doublespeak for, on the one hand, securing the (Labour-of-old-but-since-) UKIPified vote at the last GE (because it will have been understood as "Labour is for Brexit" by the relevant masses) yet, on the other hand, keeping latitude to push for the softest of Brexits should Labour get in power before March 2019 (because anything falling within the definition of "fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union" necessarily implies preserving freedom of movement). I shall remain open to correction by future facts Meanwhile, since this 4th part is still titled 'consequences', topical update with still more signs of the UK economy going down the tubes: UK consumers suffer longest decline in spending power since 1970s. This time last year, the UK economy was one of the fastest growing in Europe. The reversal, due to a Brexit that hasn't even happened yet, is stunning and the direct consequences for many households are likely to be harsh: The Bank of England is watching for signs of a pickup in the economy after the weak start to the year as it plans when to raise interest rates for the first time in a decade. <...> The BoE expects growth to increase speed to 0.4 percent in the second quarter - despite the inconclusive outcome of this month's national election - and has said it might start to raise interest rates if it sees stronger exports and investment in the coming months. So if the economy picks up, interest rates will go up...and that will be happening just as households' savings ratios are hitting an all-time low of 1.7%. A perfect socio-economic storm is brewing. And many of those who misguidedly voted for it in 2016, and supported it again at the GE, will be first- and worst-hit. Every cloud has a silver lining though: as more and more of Project Fear materialises, and the snake oil merchants lose any and all political currency as a result of it, maybe the 'experts' shall regain some of their legitimate respect, and normality eventually resume...one can but hope. Edited June 30, 2017 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobinfoot Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 You can drop the pretence whenever you feel like it. Seems to me that it is your typical political doublespeak for, on the one hand, securing the (Labour-of-old-but-since-) UKIPified vote at the last GE (because it will have been understood as "Labour is for Brexit" by the relevant masses) yet, on the other hand, keeping latitude to push for the softest of Brexits should Labour get in power before March 2019 (because anything falling within the definition of "fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union" necessarily implies preserving freedom of movement). I shall remain open to correction by future facts Meanwhile, since this 4th part is still titled 'consequences', topical update with still more signs of the UK economy going down the tubes: UK consumers suffer longest decline in spending power since 1970s. This time last year, the UK economy was one of the fastest growing in Europe. The reversal, due to a Brexit that hasn't even happened yet, is stunning. What is the pretence I should drop ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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