hackey lad Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 But it also states there is a shortage of people to pick said crops, so technically they are rotting in fields, no? No ............... ---------- Post added 11-11-2017 at 23:57 ---------- https://www.euractiv.com/section/social-europe-jobs/interview/eu-trade-unionist-brexit-should-not-be-alibi-to-destroy-social-protection/ ETUC chief: Brexit should not be alibi to destroy social protections In the wake of the British vote, European trade unions are getting ready to prevent Brexit becoming an alibi to destroy even more social protections, Luca Visentini said in an interview with euractiv.com. When you say restructure the EU, can you be more specific? On content, there are still a number of question marks. First of all, if we want to make sure that the EU institutions can regain some form of democratic legitimacy, then why not give the Parliament the right to legislate, instead of just merely replying to initiatives forwarded by the Commission. Secondly, why not make sure that the Commission President is directly elected when the Parliament is elected. Thirdly, why not transform the Commission into a real government of the EU. That means no more 28 or 27 Commissioners appointed by the Council, but fewer than 27, elected by the Parliament to rule the EU. That would make the Commission more independent from individual member states. Why not extend the majority vote as much as possible in the Council instead of unanimity ---------- Post added 11-11-2017 at 23:00 ---------- They already have the money. Forgive me because its late ,but Luca Visentini (whoever he is ) is talking about some form of democratic legitimacy (so its not at the moment democratic or legitimate ) , talking about the EU parliament having to legislate instead of the EU commission but wants the commission president in power when the parliament is elected and the commission would be the real government of the EU . So who is in power ?Who is running this ? the commission , parliament , or the EU council ? No wonder so many people voted to leave this convoluted mess of an organisation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Nothing apart from Cornwall Council commissioning a study that proves that all the warnings are coming true. Yeah nothing at all As for the rotting crops just read the report. Do you demand a video of everything you don’t want to believe. Weird.. Cornwall Councils commission is about as believable as SCC commission on tree felling and proves nothing! Its not that I don't want to believe its just that you have faith that the report is true, and as you know faith is just trust without proof. I don't have that faith and given the amount of fake news recently then I would expect.. in the great SF tradition.. that there was some form of backup instead of hearsay, after all it is a great photo opportunity. ---------- Post added 12-11-2017 at 01:05 ---------- Those who voted for brexit because they were fed up with the government's austerity programme didn't do so with the expectation that they would be worse off afterwards. And the proof of that is .. where? I voted for Brexit regardless of the outcome and most did so knowing it would cause problems and just wanted to be out. ---------- Post added 12-11-2017 at 01:11 ---------- You are of course talking garbage,Boris Johnson, wrote: Brexit will allow the UK to "be the greatest country on earth" and "our destiny will be in our own hands". "This country will succeed in our new national enterprise, and will succeed mightily," he wrote Notice nothing in there about promising Brexit being a success which is what these recent posts have been about. And Gove said:http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/michael_gove_the_facts_of_life_say_leave.html 'The UK’s success will send a very different message to the EU’s peoples. They will see that a different Europe is possible. It is possible to regain democratic control of your own country and currency, to trade and co-operate with other EU nations without surrendering fundamental sovereignty to a remote and unelected bureaucracy. And, by following that path, your people are richer, your influence for good greater, your future brighter... Our vote to Leave will liberate and strengthen those voices across the EU calling for a different future - those demanding the devolution of powers back from Brussels and desperate for a progressive alternative... Blah, blah, blah. Nothing in there about promising Brexit will be a success either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Luca Visentini, General Secretary of the European Trade Union Confederation (ETUC) has some very revealing views on the EU: "On content, there are still a number of question marks. First of all, if we want to make sure that the EU institutions can regain some form of democratic legitimacy This is because the various EU institutions (EU Parliament, EU Commission, European Council, EU kangaroo Court of Justice etc) have NO democratic legitimacy. then why not give the Parliament the right to legislate, instead of just merely replying to initiatives forwarded by the Commission. The EU Commission has all of the power, and refuses to give the EU Parliament the right to legislate. The member states' elected representatives, MEP's, are simply well paid puppets acting in a sham parliament and don't really matter to the EU. Secondly, why not make sure that the Commission President is directly elected when the Parliament is elected. The EU insists that the Commission President is personally elected by the European Parliament - but only one candidate is permitted to be on the ballot paper. The current Commission President, Jean-Claude Juncker, was 'elected' in this manner. His election was described by the EU as a "victory for democracy". Thirdly, why not transform the Commission into a real government of the EU. A real government, in the democratic sense, would have to be accountable to the people at some point and it's representatives able to be removed if the people wish it. The EU Commission would never allow this, as the 'little people' (us) cannot be permitted to have a say on the direction of the Project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 In March 1975, three months before the vote, minutes taken during a British government cabinet meeting reveal that Harold Wilson, the Labour Prime Minister, was urged by his ministers to inform the British people that continued membership of the EEC would seriously compromise Britain’s ability to govern itself. Staying in meant "a gross infringement of sovereignty” and a “serious attack on Parliamentary democracy". A "dismemberment of the authority of the House of Commons”. But the Government’s official pamphlet explaining the referendum instead assured voters that the “essence of sovereignty” would be protected by staying in. It was a deception. A deliberate lie by the establishment. The British people were not given a fair and informed choice in 1975. Oh, you're responding to me again are you, cool... happy to address you points, but first, for the 5th time: What do you think about the US attempting to dictating our laws post-Brexit in order for us to secure a trade deal? Any views on the recent tax avoidance revelations showing most of it is facilitated by the UK? ---------- Post added 12-11-2017 at 02:42 ---------- Sorry to burst that bubble and be pedantic but they didnt vote for it to be a success. I'm afraid I'm not in the bubble, you are if you think the majority of people who voted for Brexit aren't expecting a tangible benefit to their own lives and the fortunes of the nation by doing so. They may have been persuaded by campaign promises but never once was there a promise for it to be a success on any referendum paper or campaign. Really, so like the £350m, they weren't promises at all and there won't be any problems if they're not delivered? I got news for you, that isn't going to cut it with the vast majority if it goes pear shaped. Again you are changing the context to make out that promises are the same as voting for it to be a success. For the promises to be realised, Brexit has to be a success. If you believed the promises, which many clearly did and still do, then they voted for Brexit to be a success. No its the remainers that are getting desperate because they are running out of time and are desperate to stop Brexit. Nah, we won't stop it, but there's a good chance it'll stop itself or change it's form to something less stupid if it doesn't look like it's going to deliver. You see, those promises and the need for Brexit to be a success aren't going away, no matter how hard you try. A point well made by the head of the NHS the other day. Leave having a majority vote is the success and so is leaving the EU whatever flavour Brexit that may be. For someone who does a lot of whining about so-called "sidestepping", you sure are having to do a lot of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) Cornwall Councils commission is about as believable as SCC commission on tree felling and proves nothing! Its not that I don't want to believe its just that you have faith that the report is true, and as you know faith is just trust without proof. I don't have that faith and given the amount of fake news recently then I would expect.. in the great SF tradition.. that there was some form of backup instead of hearsay, after all it is a great photo opportunity. ---------- Post added 12-11-2017 at 01:05 ---------- And the proof of that is .. where? I voted for Brexit regardless of the outcome and most did so knowing it would cause problems and just wanted to be out. ---------- Post added 12-11-2017 at 01:11 ---------- Notice nothing in there about promising Brexit being a success which is what these recent posts have been about. Blah, blah, blah. Nothing in there about promising Brexit will be a success either. Nothing except 'the UK's success'.In fact,all you are doing here is dragging Gove and Johnson into your weird and wonderful world and making them look more deceitful than many think they already are by claiming that they haven't promised/expected anything other than Brexit being a success after banging the drum for it in the referendum. ---------- Post added 12-11-2017 at 07:03 ---------- [/color] Luca Visentini, General Secretary of the European Trade Union Confederation (ETUC) has some very revealing views on the EU: This is because the various EU institutions (EU Parliament, EU Commission, European Council, EU kangaroo Court of Justice etc) have NO democratic legitimacy. The EU Commission has all of the power, and refuses to give the EU Parliament the right to legislate. The member states' elected representatives, MEP's, are simply well paid puppets acting in a sham parliament and don't really matter to the EU. The EU insists that the Commission President is personally elected by the European Parliament - but only one candidate is permitted to be on the ballot paper. The current Commission President, Jean-Claude Juncker, was 'elected' in this manner. His election was described by the EU as a "victory for democracy". A real government, in the democratic sense, would have to be accountable to the people at some point and it's representatives able to be removed if the people wish it. The EU Commission would never allow this, as the 'little people' (us) cannot be permitted to have a say on the direction of the Project. Looks like the main point you can take away from this to me,is that the ETUC,are not so anti EU as you were trying to make them out to be on the basis of what one of their members said,Luca is actually saying quite different things to you,and in no way is wanting to 'smash the EU'. Edited November 12, 2017 by chalga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 https://www.euractiv.com/section/social-europe-jobs/interview/eu-trade-unionist-brexit-should-not-be-alibi-to-destroy-social-protection/ ETUC chief: Brexit should not be alibi to destroy social protections In the wake of the British vote, European trade unions are getting ready to prevent Brexit becoming an alibi to destroy even more social protections, Luca Visentini said in an interview with euractiv.com. When you say restructure the EU, can you be more specific? On content, there are still a number of question marks. First of all, if we want to make sure that the EU institutions can regain some form of democratic legitimacy, then why not give the Parliament the right to legislate, instead of just merely replying to initiatives forwarded by the Commission. Secondly, why not make sure that the Commission President is directly elected when the Parliament is elected. Thirdly, why not transform the Commission into a real government of the EU. That means no more 28 or 27 Commissioners appointed by the Council, but fewer than 27, elected by the Parliament to rule the EU. That would make the Commission more independent from individual member states. Why not extend the majority vote as much as possible in the Council instead of unanimity ---------- Post added 11-11-2017 at 23:00 ---------- They already have the money. Yeah sure, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-27/how-brexit-means-eu-loses-money-influence-and-military-strength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Cornwall Councils commission is about as believable as SCC commission on tree felling and proves nothing! Its not that I don't want to believe its just that you have faith that the report is true, and as you know faith is just trust without proof. I don't have that faith and given the amount of fake news recently then I would expect.. in the great SF tradition.. that there was some form of backup instead of hearsay, after all it is a great photo opportunity. It is that you don’t want to believe because it’s very inconvenient to you. Note that the report did not just cover agriculture but the care and service sectors as well. Just following up on the service sector theme and reporting the same issues as Cornwall Council: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/11/restaurants-brexit-boom-to-bust-uk-hospitality-industry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 It is that you don’t want to believe because it’s very inconvenient to you. Note that the report did not just cover agriculture but the care and service sectors as well. Just following up on the service sector theme and reporting the same issues as Cornwall Council: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/11/restaurants-brexit-boom-to-bust-uk-hospitality-industry From the article, "Damian Wawrzyniak is as well placed as anyone to judge the work ethics of British and Polish workers. “I can’t say that there is a difference between the Polish and British. It doesn’t matter what nationality you are. If someone does not want to work then they won’t work,” he said." Well if pay was better perhaps they would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Yeah sure, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-27/how-brexit-means-eu-loses-money-influence-and-military-strength Which says nothing about the money they already have,just the money they won't get from the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Looks like the main point you can take away from this to me,is that the ETUC,are not so anti EU as you were trying to make them out to be on the basis of what one of their members said,Luca is actually saying quite different things to you,and in no way is wanting to 'smash the EU'. The European Trade Union Confederation (ETUC) is basically a reformist, pro-EU organisation - which receives the majority of its funding from the EU. Of course the ETUC doesn't want to 'smash the EU' - I have never stated that it did. But even this pro-EU organisation recognises that the EU is inherently undemocratic, attacks public services and weakens the protection of workers. This is being done in contravention of its own treaties in a typically devious and administratively complex way, in order to fool the gullible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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