The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[L00b]

Understood but I'm just not convinced that the government would allow either scenario to happen given it's severity and the far reaching impact.

Rest assured I'm not out to convince you either way: I'm simply stating the facts underlying the issue (which are highly material for 3.2m EU/EEA nationals in the UK, not 'mere' debating points), and accessorily giving a personal insight it as well (I am one such EU immigrant, in the midst of relocating), wherein that personal insight is coloured by a "one in the hand, two in the bush" appreciation of the issue.

 

The UK government put me in the starting blocs when Theresa May triggered Article 50 back in March, and the countdown ran out this summer, so far as I'm concerned. For many (very many) other EU/EEA nationals in the UK, likewise the UK government already ran out of time, or shortly will. For still other EU/EEA nationals of a more opportunistic/mercenary nature (e.g. fruit pickers discussed over past few pages), the UK ceased being an attractive job prospect when the £ tanked in 2016 and didn't recover enough (whereby they already went back, or didn't return/come back this year).

 

Can't put it in any simpler terms.

 

That's one thing the UK government either calculated well (if the objective was to start a repatriation exodus of EU/EEA nationals), or miscalculated badly (if the objective was to gain leverage over the EU in negotiations) by holding us as "negotiation pawns" but then stalling negotiations: most economic migrants know when to cut their losses, and do not need anyone's permission to walk off to the next greener bit of pasture.

 

How that then affects UK Plc and all who ride with her, well...is UK plc's problem, which it can discuss with its government.

 

But rest also assured that I spare as much (kind) thoughts for UK nationals in the EU, because they're just as much "negotiation pawns" for the UK government as we are (the EU unilaterally offered to have everything 'kept exactly as it is' for them, even before the first round of negotiations).

Edited November 14, 2017 by L00b

[ENG601PM]

You really think the EU is anti worker?

 

You really need to ask the young people of Portugal , Italy, Greece and Spain who have found new opportunities for unemployment since the EU leveraged German finance houses and government fiscal policy requirements.

 

Youth unemployment rates of 28%, 38%, 47%, 45% respectively. For comparison the UK is 13%.

[truman]

.................

Edited November 14, 2017 by truman

[ENG601PM]

Or to put it another way the others weren’t obliged to join.

 

By extension the UK wouldn’t have had to join either.

 

That big bad compulsory EU army with conscription......looks like another lie by Brexiters doesn’t it.

 

Nobody mentioned conscription, that's a lie. Here's another lie:

Mr Farage said the British people had "had enough of getting involved in foreign wars".

 

He said he did not want Britain to be part of an "expansionist" EU foreign policy, claiming that the EU wants its own "army and navy".

Mr Clegg said this was a "dangerous fantasy that is simply not true".

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2017 at 11:31 ----------

 

As we are still in the EU I'm not sure what your point is...

 

It's as plain as the nose on your face, when it is a choice between workers and maintaining the Euro's fiscal union underwritten by German hegemony, the German government and finance houses come first. In short, using your words, the EU is anti worker.

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2017 at 11:34 ----------

 

1/5 of EU doctors planning to leave the NHS

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/14/one-in-five-european-nhs-doctors-plans-quit-uk-survey-reveals

 

I can vouch for this. They are leaving already. Nurses too.

 

That will be the NHS staff English language tests that have been introduced this year, which huge numbers of EU doctors and nurses have failed. Filipino nurses are going home in droves too.

 

Personally I favour medical staff that have an adequate command of the English language no matter where they hail from.

Edited November 14, 2017 by ENG601PM

[Car Boot]

Riled Car Boot? Your posts are becoming longer.

 

How about this one http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41859691 - apparently ‘WTO’ isn’t a given, it turns out you need to negotiate those terms with each party. Also turns out that tarriffs on food are upto 50%. No doubt this will help the poor working class in Britain somehow.

 

How does the EU forcing British households to pay an extra £832 (and increasing) per year for food, due to the huge EU Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) budget, help the poor working class?

 

CAP is an EU subsidy for the biggest and wealthiest landowners. It is also depriving tens of thousands of African farmers of their livelihoods. The EU dumps thousands of tons of subsidised food exports in Africa every year, so that local producers cannot even compete on a level playing field in their own land.

 

The EU is a vehicle to maximise profits for the rich at the expense of the poor.

 

NO to EU treaties that encourage social dumping and demand privatisation!

[truman]

 

It's as plain as the nose on your face, when it is a choice between workers and maintaining the Euro's fiscal union underwritten by German hegemony, the German government and finance houses come first. In short, using your words, the EU is anti worker.

 

.

 

How do you reckon that'll change for the UK once we've left?

[I1L2T3]

Nobody mentioned conscription, that's a lie. Here's another lie:

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2017 at 11:31 ----------

 

 

It's as plain as the nose on your face, when it is a choice between workers and maintaining the Euro's fiscal union underwritten by German hegemony, the German government and finance houses come first. In short, using your words, the EU is anti worker.

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2017 at 11:34 ----------

 

 

That will be the NHS staff English language tests that have been introduced this year, which huge numbers of EU doctors and nurses have failed. Filipino nurses are going home in droves too.

 

Personally I favour medical staff that have an adequate command of the English language no matter where they hail from.

 

Conscription has been mentioned in this thread, and in the Express as I recall.

 

As for the NHS, workers from the EU are leaving and English language tests have little to do with it. Stop trying to spin everything.

[L00b]

How does the EU forcing British households to pay an extra £832 (and increasing) per year for food, due to the huge EU Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) budget, help the poor working class?<blah>

I was going to ask you for a basis for that figure/claim, but then realised it would be pointless: you simply don't understand how the EU works (and/or wilfully refuse to do so) and just harangue deceitful misrepresentations, so arguing over specifics with you is like peeing in a violin to try and get a tune out.

 

Instead, I'll just

 

(i) leave this bit of factual information: the net contribution of the UK to the CAP budget in 2014 once the rebate is taken into account was €1.27 billion (18% of its total net contribution to the EU budget). This is in the context of a CAP budget of around €54 billion in 2014 (source);

 

(ii) remind all and sundry that the UK’s net contribution to the overall EU budget is mainly due to its contribution to transfers to the new member states and to items like the EU’s development aid budget, rather than its funding of farmers in other member states (if the UK were to withdraw from the EU and retain its net contribution, the main losers would be the countries of central and eastern Europe whose membership of the EU the UK so strongly supported) (same source);

 

(iii) the EU is not the sort of club wherein member countries get to pick and choose which bits of their contribution to the full pot go where, they only decide how big the full pot is and what it feeds [PAC, aid, institutions budgets, <etc.>] for how much; and

 

(iv) the UK is not the only net contributor to the EU budget, nor the highest per-capita contributor.

Edited November 14, 2017 by L00b

[Car Boot]

You really think the EU is anti worker?

 

With only a small amount of research, it is evident that the EU is indeed anti worker.

 

The EU has a deliberate policy of using mass unemployment and slow growth in many of its weaker member states to destroy collective bargaining, reduce pay and conditions and remove trades unions from the economic landscape in its wealthier member states.

 

The Single Market has massively increased the reserve army of economic migrant labour across the continent to a consistent 10% of the workforce (20 million people) with most of them originating from almost 'never to work again' areas of some of the economically weaker EU countries.

 

Enforced migration for many EU worker's has become the norm. This is a deliberate move to deplete the economies of the East of its skills and youth, whose ultimate purpose is to undermine social provisions and communities in the West.

 

Replacing national Parliaments with unelected EU Commissioners who enact the wishes of the corporations and banks is the best way to create an army of economic nomads and slaves. The EU has proved this.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Car Boot

[chalga]

With only a small amount of research, it is evident that the EU is indeed anti worker.

 

The EU has a deliberate policy of using mass unemployment and slow growth in many of its weaker member states to destroy collective bargaining, reduce pay and conditions and remove trades unions from the economic landscape in its wealthier member states.

 

The Single Market has massively increased the reserve army of economic migrant labour across the continent to a consistent 10% of the workforce (20 million people) with most of them originating from almost 'never to work again' areas of some of the economically weaker EU countries.

 

Enforced migration for many EU worker's has become the norm. This is a deliberate move to deplete the economies of the East of its skills and youth, whose ultimate purpose is to undermine social provisions and communities in the West.

 

Replacing national Parliaments with unelected EU Commissioners who enact the wishes of the corporations and banks is the best way to create an army of economic nomads and slaves. The EU has proved this.

 

Yet more examples of blaming the EU for the failure of democratically elected governments,you couldn't make it up..............unless you are Car Boot,then you do make it up,thank god there is the blamer in chief country on its way out.