chalga Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 There is tremendous hardship in the UK now. 44 years of EU membership hasn't eradicated poverty and suffering. The EU, of course, never intended to even attempt to do this. The EU only cares about the (single) market with its cherished four freedoms: the free movement of capital, goods, services and workers. People NOT markets! Did the EU promise to eradicate poverty and suffering in the UK? What about UK governments,what did they promise? I keep hearing that UK government manifestos mean zilch,so why would any promise from the EU,if one was given,mean anything either? What did successive UK governments want to do to end poverty and suffering in the UK that the EU prevented them from doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRB Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Yes. The 'Brexodus' is in full flow! EU nationals are fleeing the UK at an alarming rate - according to the Remoaners doomsday cult. Yet official figures from the Office for National Statistics show EU citizens coming and working here in record numbers! After the leave vote! Like all the other failed predictions of disaster invented by this kooky new religion, Brexodus is a fiction. I haven’t checked..yet what sectors these incomers are employed in,but 10000 NHS workers,including 2000 doctors and 4000 nurses left since Brexit and up to June 2017. This sounds pretty serious to me as the government is caught on the hop in planning to replace these key jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 But according to the Remoaners the EU is a social-democratic paradise that protects us from the Tories (something it hasn't done, and never had any intention of doing, in our 44 years of membership). I don't think anyone has said the EU is a paradise of any kind - but leaving the EU will make it much easier for the Tories to screw workers. Much of the trouble stems from how poor British management has been in comparison to say Germany's - we seem to reward short term asset strippers and speculators rather than those who go for long term planned growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I don't think anyone has said the EU is a paradise of any kind - but leaving the EU will make it much easier for the Tories to screw workers. Much of the trouble stems from how poor British management has been in comparison to say Germany's - we seem to reward short term asset strippers and speculators rather than those who go for long term planned growth. But the workers can vote out the Tories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) I haven’t checked..yet what sectors these incomers are employed in,but 10000 NHS workers,including 2000 doctors and 4000 nurses left since Brexit and up to June 2017. This sounds pretty serious to me as the government is caught on the hop in planning to replace these key jobs. RJRB, I addressed this partially yesterday FYI: the real problem for the UK is not the numbers (of EU immigrants - and emigrants, whether of the 'Brexoding' sort or just from straightforward economic or personal reasons), it is the skill base associated with the numbers and the associated GDP + income tax: these are being hollowed out (in the UK) by walk-offs like EU doctors, nurses and other professionals like me, and the surplus EU immigration 'blip' mentioned by Car Boot corresponds to low-skilled workers (given the comparative timescales, possibly skewed by seasonal workers coming over for a few months), i.e. those who don't bring as much skill to the UK, nor capacity to generate GDP, nor income tax to No.11, as the smaller number of departing skilled ones. Given his rabid anti-EU stance, it is perhaps unsurprising that Car Boot is not acknowledging, not engaging on, the issue: it casts a serious pall on the lofty after-Brexit aspirations of Leavers...Lest Leavers have plan to replace that skilled base very quickly, with 'replacement' immigration from e.g. the Commonwealth: the alternative, logically enough, is insufficient doctors and nurses for however long it takes to train new UK ones <and making sure enough of them want to stay in the UK after qualification: pay and perks in e.g. Oz and Dubai for UK-trained healthcare professionals is really rather competitive > and, in the meantime, make and mend with years-long NHS waiting queues (the aging UK population aiding in populating such queues). But the fact of the matter is, you don't need to be pro- or anti-EU to look at apolitical concepts such as numbers, relevant skill levels and associated pay grades. Just a little bit objective Edited November 17, 2017 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 But the workers can vote out the Tories. And hopefully they will - and start focussing on the real problems causing so much poverty in our society rather than the usual scapegoats of the Tory press - EU, immigrants, Muslims etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 But the workers can vote out the Tories. That’s like kicking an arsonist off your property after they burned down your house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 The EU can be reduced down to its cherished four freedoms (enshrined in its constitution) - the free movement of capital, goods, services and workers. This means the EU is an anti-democratic economic and political system that forces people to move around a continent at the command of multi-nationals and high finance. Treating workers as just another resource for international capital to keep wages down and profits up. This 'four freedom's mantra displays the harsh neoliberal reality of the EU. The Remoaners are either ignorant of its true purpose, or know full well and support it. SMASH THE EU - BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexo Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 But the workers can vote out the Tories. But will no longer be able to vote in European Parliament elections or have any influence over the massive trading bloc nearby. Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 The EU can be reduced down to its cherished four freedoms (enshrined in its constitution) - the free movement of capital, goods, services and workers. This means the EU is an anti-democratic economic and political system that forces people to move around a continent at the command of multi-nationals and high finance. Treating workers as just another resource for international capital to keep wages down and profits up. This 'four freedom's mantra displays the harsh neoliberal reality of the EU. The Remoaners are either ignorant of its true purpose, or know full well and support it. SMASH THE EU - BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY! We've always had free movement of capital, goods services and workers within the UK. This means the UK is an anti democratic and political system that forces etc etc SMASH THE UK :hihi: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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