The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[I1L2T3]

We are committed to current projects yes, how much real estate do we own over there? We must have at least a fifth of the building they are sitting in. I have not heard anyone saying they are thinking of pulling the plug on funding the current fiscal projects, also we are committed to their inflated pensions. After that what? schemes

 

---------- Post added 18-11-2017 at 00:42 ----------

 

 

I was a believer in the Euro, then the EU wanted, poorer members that had so different structures to Northern Europeans, then I realised it was a doomed project.

 

---------- Post added 18-11-2017 at 00:50 ----------

 

 

Logistically, only time-sensitive goods need to come through the shortest way. A lot of EU transport companies deliver goods from the EU, then ply their trade within the UK., to be honest, I don't believe that there is a need for the number of EU trucks to be in the UK. Its a detriment to the UK trucking industry

 

The problem is you are wishing and hoping for an unrealistic overnight logistical earthquake.

 

It isn’t going to happen. It will take years and during that time our primary trading partner will be the EU. No way round it. Just face reality.

[tzijlstra]

They were sound when they joined the EU, oh now I remember the EU fixed it, invaded occupied and not a shot fired and you blame the Greeks.

 

What a load of nonsense, let's turn that on its head - the UK was considered a country in financial crisis with an incredibly weak economy when it joined the EU, it isn't any more.

 

One could almost argue that a lot changes over the decades

 

In the mean-time, the Greek GDP took a 40% hit in the financial crisis (although skewed as growth figures from 2007-2008 were inflated).

 

Rabobank (a big Dutch bank) has completed a full assessment of what a sudden and hard Brexit would mean for the Dutch economy. It would lead to a 4% reduction, particularly hitting the agriculture sector (flowers, meat, veg - key exports into the UK). On the other hand it would lead to an 18% decline of British GDP. that is 1/5th of the British economy.

 

Now, I am aware that specialists and bankers etc. etc. are not of interest to most Brexiteers, but genuinely give this a think - if the UK unilaterally rips up all trade agreements it currently has, leading to a situation where EVERY import/export movement has to be individually scrutinised, what do you think will happen?

Edited November 18, 2017 by tzijlstra

[L00b]

I think that working for folk which I class myself think for themselves, which you seem to have some difficulty with.

I disagree (EDIT: for the avoidance of doubt, the following is not meant to concern only 'working class' people).

 

I was reminded of the very notion when watching this morning's Newswatch on BBC, wherein the common theme of the 5 or 6 complaint messages commented on, would be all too familiar to readers of this thread: why does is the coverage by the (biased, of course) BBC so complex and, at times, so speculative?

 

The common effect was that of people who just want to 'get on with Brexit', but who want it all to be 'done there and then', whilst keeping their head firmly in the sand as to what that means in practice, including the sheer complexity of it, never mind the (entirely logical, and wholly apolitical) consequences of Brexiting this way or that other way (soft/hard/full/deal/no deal/CETA/<etc.>).

 

The mark of intelligence is not 'how much stuff one knows or understands'.

 

The mark of intelligence is knowing what one doesn't know, and then setting to find out until one knows or understands. That demonstrates 'thinking for oneself'.

 

Wallowing in second-hand knowledge, e.g. reprising politicians' slogans and arguments, that does not show intelligence or self-thinking in the slightest: it's just confirmation bias.

 

Looking at this thread (and other Brexit threads on other forums), I haven't seen many Leavers demonstrating a capacity to think for themselves. unbeliever certainly was one. But he's pretty much the only one I can think of right now.

 

For starters, they remain unable to explain how the benefits which they anticipate from Brexit are going to materialise, or to estimate by when. There is little to no counter-arguments to points made by remainers: just more baiting, hand-waving, dog whistling and haranguing.

Edited November 18, 2017 by L00b

[I1L2T3]

I disagree (EDIT: for the avoidance of doubt, the following is not meant to concern only 'working class' people).

 

I was reminded of the very notion when watching this morning's Newswatch on BBC, wherein the common theme of the 5 or 6 complaint messages commented on, would be all too familiar to readers of this thread: why does is the coverage by the (biased, of course) BBC so complex and, at times, so speculative?

 

The common effect was that of people who just want to 'get on with Brexit', but who want it all to be 'done there and then', whilst keeping their head firmly in the sand as to what that means in practice, including the sheer complexity of it, never mind the (entirely logical, and wholly apolitical) consequences of Brexiting this way or that other way (soft/hard/full/deal/no deal/CETA/<etc.>).

 

The mark of intelligence is not 'how much stuff one knows or understands'.

 

The mark of intelligence is knowing what one doesn't know, and then setting to find out until one knows or understands. That demonstrates 'thinking for oneself'.

 

Wallowing in second-hand knowledge, e.g. reprising politicians' slogans and arguments, that does not show intelligence or self-thinking in the slightest: it's just confirmation bias.

 

Looking at this thread (and other Brexit threads on other forums), I haven't seen many Leavers demonstrating a capacity to think for themselves. unbeliever certainly was one. But he's pretty much the only one I can think of right now.

 

For starters, they remain unable to explain how the benefits which they anticipate from Brexit are going to materialise, or to estimate by when. There is little to no counter-arguments to points made by remainers: just more baiting, hand-waving, dog whistling and haranguing.

 

It’s worse than that. Many leavers make a virtue of not even having thought about how the future will pan out, and beat up on others who would like to have some idea about for example what the landscape will be for business.

 

If you’re in business or work for a business you absolute have to be aware that a stable business environment is one of the most vital things. The way Brexit is being handled has created the most unstable environment possible. It’s entirely reasonable to try and understand what that environment will be like. It’s only about 16 months away and our clients like all businesses are having to plan for the next financial year with no idea what trading conditions will be at the end of it, no idea what contingencies will be needed.

 

This whole thing is mental.

[Car Boot]

so, now we’re no longer paying £350million to fund the EU gravy train or to pay Goldman Sachs’ bar tab, when will my income tax bill drop accordingly ?

 

The income tax bill for affluent middle class liberals, 92 per cent of whom voted to remain in the EU, must rise significantly. If you belong to this social group then you should expect to pay significantly more for your selfish lifestyle.

 

This sector of society can comfortably afford to pay much more into the system. Mr. Corbyn is looking at ways that the tax system can be rebalanced in favour of the vulnerable and disadvantaged, and not the wealthy elite.

[SkylinePhoto]

Siemens plans to cut about two percent of its global workforce.

 

The German industrial group said 6,900 jobs will go before 2020 at its Power and Gas division, which has been hit by a rapid growth of renewable energy, such as wind and solar power.

 

Siemens said roughly half of the job cuts would be made in Germany. A further 1,100 positions will be cut across the rest of Europe, and 1,800 in the United States.

Meanwhile Siemens’ expansion plans for Britain will go ahead. It will invest the equivalent of 39 million euros at its largest UK plant in Lincoln which employs 1,500 people.

[tzijlstra]

The income tax bill for affluent middle class liberals, 92 per cent of whom voted to remain in the EU, must rise significantly. If you belong to this social group then you should expect to pay significantly more for your selfish lifestyle.

 

This sector of society can comfortably afford to pay much more into the system. Mr. Corbyn is looking at ways that the tax system can be rebalanced in favour of the vulnerable and disadvantaged, and not the wealthy elite.

 

Which middle class liberals? The continuously squeezed working ones, or the old ones who are hoarding the money in the shape of property? Also, does it apply if you are a Tory or Labour voter or is this exclusively for Liberal Democrats?

[altus]

BBC is biased just got to see the interviews with David D today, why would anyone in the country want to down our side, I still cannot get my head around why we as a one of the largest Net contributor owe them anything

 

The job of the BBC is not to act as a cheer leader for the government - it's to hold them to account by asking them to explain/justify what they are doing (which is frequently awkward questions they'd rather not be asked).

[ENG601PM]

I’m talking about it because we will still have to do 50% of our trade with the EU for a long time to come. Goods can’t be just teleported in and out of the country

 

Not true.

 

UK trade with the EU is around 40% and has been declining sharply for years. Moreover, the EU has a substantial trading deficit with the UK, making the UK proportionately important to the EU than vice versa.

 

As a technologically advanced north Atlantic island with millennias of maritime trading history the UK is almost uniquely placed to benefit from international trade opportunities.

 

By contrast, the EU proportion of world trade had been in decline for some years. Even the Antarctic has better growth than the EU.

[El Cid]

The job of the BBC is not to act as a cheer leader for the government - it's to hold them to account by asking them to explain/justify what they are doing (which is frequently awkward questions they'd rather not be asked).

 

They do ask, but the politicians give a non-answer, even Labour do it. The BBC end up just reporting the news, its down to others to be more critical. Just look at the change in Robert Peston, now he has left the BBC, although he is still on occasionally.

BBC radio four is much better than the standard news programs(they have more time), but many are not that interested in what the truth is.