I1L2T3 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Still here then I see, you're not really going are you? We're not complaining bacause leave won the referendum, that's how democracy works, something the losers don't seem to understand. ---------- Post added 23-11-2017 at 19:46 ---------- Don't worry,Whitby was never going to win that. You’re not complaining because you are utterly blind to the damage that is happening to this country. I’m not sure what it is going to take. You don’t seem to realise that you are losers too. Now about those lies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Yes. As I've posted earlier, nobody knows the future- all anyone experiences is a succession of 'present'. Only in hindsight could it be determined whether leaving the EU was or wasn't financially advantageous. As that was never the deciding issue, it seems irrelevant for the time being. UKIP are desperate to discourage people from considering the future because they might realise what sort of ****storm is heading towards them. What do you think of Breitbart paying for 'volunteers' to work for Nigel's leave campaign whilst hiding the source of their funding - against the UK's rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENG601PM Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Name five local councillors now, including one that you voted for. Do it without checking the internet. You can't, and 99% of people in this thread can't either. There's your local democracy in a nutshell. If you don't care enough to know your local councillors you can't be taken seriously when you acclaim democracy. (By the way, same goes for MPs, people are usually able to name the Prime Minister and sometimes one or two others in the cabinet.) Nothing to do with a lack of democracy, rather a bit of a strawman to claim it. Wrong question to the wrong person. I'm on first name terms with half of them in Sheffield. But your question belies the truth even if you don't realise. Why would you want more undemcocray on top of what you already have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Wrong question to the wrong person. I'm on first name terms with half of them in Sheffield. But your question belies the truth even if you don't realise. Why would you want more undemcocray on top of what you already have? Fair enough, some people work for the council or are politically active, that doesn’t take away the futility of your point. The EU is democratic, parliament and council are the result of direct democracy. An important point to make as well is that the EU has always massively been underreported In Britain- how were people ever going to understand the EU democratic values if all they heard was the stuff national politicians blamed on the EU. Only since Brexit is the EU a regular topic of conversation, and even now people massively misunderstand it, like Andrew Neil parroting D Davis on Germany and the ‘opportunity to take advantage’ - when publicly corrected by a German journalist A Neil called him a fool... no Andrew, you are and have been the fool together with almost all other political commentators for ignoring the EU forever and not taking the time to understand what you were reporting, the UK didn’tt need Russian meddling, incompetent journalism did all the work for Putin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) As you know I didnt suggest that, I said "myself and many others".. Twisting words to suit again eh. Oh, so only "you and many others" voted to be worse off.... good to know. You also said people voted out with no consideration of being better or worse off, that's clearly nonsense too. Oh dear, doing it again. I never mentioned anything about not having a voice in all this did I? Clearly, from your response, you didn't consider them in the context of my post. But since you brought it up you should know that elections are about people who vote and not those that abstain. In any election those that abstain do not count. The simple fact is the electorate who did vote leave were in the majority and its that majority that is important and what counts. Public ire, and social unrest aren't confined only to those that voted. It's taken 7 years of moderate austerity to cause all this (misplaced) resentment of the EU, and now we're told that leaving, despite promising the opposite, is going to extend and possibly increase the pace of that! Clearly, you don't feel people are going to resent that and be blaming those that advocated leave, cool. I think they might. As for the rest, I wouldn't know, you snipped most of it out! Maybe next time, you could include the whole post you're replying to and be a little less selective eh? ---------- Post added 24-11-2017 at 08:53 ---------- As opposed to the lies of the remain campaign where every government department put out a doom and gloom story about how Brexit would affect us all and that it would result in chaos and anarchy! Bexit is effecting us, negatively. Government is in chaos.. is the anarchy yet to come? If you wanna talk about lies, talk to the leave campaign:- https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02/ Edited November 24, 2017 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 I'm not talking about elections, I'm talking about public ire, and social unrest, that's not about just those that voted.There hasn't been any, the consequences aren't affecting a sufficient volume of ordinary people yet. Moreover, the British public has a much higher tolerance to s**t sandwiches than most others which, I'd argue, is both a blessing and a curse at the same time. But if nothing is changed about the political scene and the Brexiting direction of the UK, and things proceed as they currently look to be doing, eventually it'll be Poll Tax + Miners' Strike in the streets, and particularly so in the North. You just wait until Fox signs the UK up to this (which isn't a new position by India at all: see this from a year ago, in case you want to see how little has changed). What did the large body of disenfranchised people who voted for Brexit want? More control of immigration, reclaimed sovereignty and better public services? By the time Brexiteers are done, it will have less of any of those, than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) There hasn't been any, the consequences aren't affecting a sufficient volume of ordinary people yet. Still £12bn of welfare cuts to work through the system, public services spending due to be 3.6% lower than today by 2022. Wages in 2021 lower in real terms than 2008. Eeek! Civil unrest a real possibility https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/nov/24/robert-peston-interview-im-not-saying-britain-is-finished-but-our-current-problems-are-not-a-blip What did the large body of disenfranchised people who voted for Brexit want? More control of immigration, reclaimed sovereignty and better public services? Was never about that now (apparently) By the time Brexiteers are done, it will have less of any of those, than ever. UK economy faces 'longest fall in living standards in 60 years':- http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42087881 That sure is a large revision since March. No End in Sight to the Brexit Madness. "The slow-motion self-immolation that is Brexit continues for the U.K." https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/no-end-in-sight-to-the-brexit-madness Meanwhile, "The eurozone’s 'booming' economy powered ahead in November with jobs growth and new manufacturing orders reaching 17-year highs" https://www.ft.com/content/56d8e0ba-d03a-11e7-9dbb-291a884dd8c6 Edited November 24, 2017 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 The EU is democratic, parliament and council are the result of direct democracy. The EU is neither democratic or socialist. It has been deliberately designed by neoliberal free-market fanatics to have significant inbuilt democratic deficits in all of its institutions and policy making area's. Inequality between its member states has been used to impose neoliberal austerity, privatisation and the theft of public wealth. In the EU, the wealthiest 1 per cent ALWAYS come before the 99 per cent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 The EU is neither democratic or socialist. It has been deliberately designed by neoliberal free-market fanatics to have significant inbuilt democratic deficits in all of its institutions and policy making area's. Inequality between its member states has been used to impose neoliberal austerity, privatisation and the theft of public wealth. In the EU, the wealthiest 1 per cent ALWAYS come before the 99 per cent. I think you will find that the most neoliberal free-market fanatic country in the EU is... the UK. I'd like you to refute that point by explaining which EU country is more 'neoliberal' as you wrongly call it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) Why did Cameron, Osborne, the CBI, IMF, WTO, World Bank, Goldman Sachs and the entire system of exploitative international finance capital want Britain to Remain in the EU? Because the EU is 'democratic'? To improve workers rights? Ha. Edited November 24, 2017 by Car Boot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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