The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[Cyclecar]

The argument as to referendum voting according to age is well put, but omits one factor.

 

People change their minds over time, in the light of experience.

 

Yes, the young might have voted Remain, just like my generation (I am 75 today, writing this after a celebratory cuppa) did in 1972. Then voting to join the European Economic Community - the EEC - was an easy choice. It was a good idea. However, over the last 45 years we have seen the EEC metamorphose into the EU, an entirely continental construct based on an ever expanding bureaucratic model. This now impacts on every aspect of our lives, resulting in two governments, etc.

 

So, based on this experience, the young who voted "join" in 1972, are now the old who voted "leave" in 2016.

 

I ask - if the result had been Remain - how might those in favour feel in a few years time. Would they be regretting their decision?

 

( And on an allied issue: some are arguing that the Leave victory is because of ignorance from Norman from Newcastle, or Doris from Dewsbury. But remember that they didn't ask for a referendum, this was a bright idea from Tristram and Rupert in a policy think tank somewhere in the Westminster bubble. It's the old adage - if you don't want the wrong answer - don't ask the question..............)

[Litotes]

did he lie on the bus? but if you believe he did then once a lier then always one, why are you now seeking to believe him?

 

So are you saying he lied on the bus?

Or he didn't and he didn't lie in the statement?

 

You can't have it both ways (although may leavers appear to think they can...)

[chalga]

From reading this thread it's clear that most Remainers didn't know what they were actually voting for in the referendum.

 

Many Remainers felt bullied into voting to stay due to the clumsy sledgehammer propaganda of 'Project Fear'. The majority of these people didn't have any real understanding of the inner workings of the EU (most still don't) or even understand that there were alternative options or economic models available to the UK.

 

Many people were forced into voting Remain because they wanted us to retain access to the neoliberal Single Market - without fully appreciating the negative impacts that 'freedom of movement' brings with it and the resulting pressures on communities, infrastructure, services and housing that it creates.

 

No. The best the Remain voters can offer now is for them (the losers) to demand that the winners explain themselves.

 

We are leaving the corrupt and undemocratic EU. No further explanation necessary.

 

There is an explanation necessary..........why couldn't you go the day after the referendum?

[ANGELFIRE1]

But you can’t deny the early indications are not looking very good at all:

 

1) 10% overnight drop in sterling

 

2) Leading to a 20% increase in the cost of imported goods

 

3) We’re gonna pay back tens of billions to the EU

 

4) We’re gonna be forced to import more immigrant workers from overseas if we want trade deals with foreign countries (you didn’t think Pratty Patel voted for Brexit because she loves England, did you?? )

 

5) There won’t be an extra £350million a week for the NHS

 

So please, can any Brexiter out there tell me what the benefits of leaving the EU will be?

 

In a word, Freedom.

 

Angel1.

[phil752]

So are you saying he lied on the bus?

Or he didn't and he didn't lie in the statement?

 

You can't have it both ways (although may leavers appear to think they can...)

 

No, you are saying he lied on the bus but believe what he is saying now, read what I wrote. Otherwise, why quote him.

[tzijlstra]

Immigration is down! Hurrah! EU15 residents are leaving in droves! Result, no more pesky German beggars in underpasses or Danish pastrybakers taking jobs from Fletchers!

[SnailyBoy]

In a word, Freedom.

 

Angel1.

 

That's an expensive word, £50bn and a slowing economy..

 

I get your point though, imagine all the things we'll be able to do with that freedom.

 

We can pass laws in our own Parliament. We can remove people who come here to look for work but don't find it, after say 6 months.

[Magilla]

These elderly 'bigots', as you so eloquently put it, voted to Remain in the EEC (Common Market) back in June 1975. They were misled by the Remain camp back then, and came to bitterly regret their decision. But they continued working, paying into the system, supporting the generations who came after them.

 

That dynamic ended ages ago... the reality is that the majority of those pensioners now take more out of the system than they ever put in, passing the cost of their pension/welfare on to the next generation.

 

"Those who are now aged between 60 and 75 will receive, on average, £200,000 more from the state than they put in. Those in their twenties will contribute £100,000 more than they take out."

 

In June 2016 they changed their vote to Leave. Setting right what once went wrong.

 

Now they are insulted and abused by those who call them 'bigot' and not friend.

 

"The baby boomers’ last laugh: the parting shot of a generation that has enjoyed unprecedented largesse from the state and then bequeathed debt, unemployment and political instability to their grandchildren."

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/observations/2016/09/baby-boomers-last-laugh-why-young-britain-losing-out

[The Joker]

That's an expensive word, £50bn and a slowing economy..

 

I get your point though, imagine all the things we'll be able to do with that freedom.

 

We can pass laws in our own Parliament. We can remove people who come here to look for work but don't find it, after say 6 months.

 

Bless

 

That’ll go right over their heads, that one

[Magilla]

From reading this thread it's clear that most Remainers didn't know what they were actually voting for in the referendum.

 

As all the leavers promises fall by the wayside

 

Many Remainers felt bullied into voting to stay due to the clumsy sledgehammer propaganda of 'Project Fear'. The majority of these people didn't have any real understanding of the inner workings of the EU (most still don't) or even understand that there were alternative options or economic models available to the UK.

 

All of which are forecast to reduce our standing and influence in the wider world, while reducing living standards at the same time!

 

Many people were forced into voting Remain because they wanted us to retain access to the neoliberal Single Market - without fully appreciating the negative impacts that 'freedom of movement' brings with it and the resulting pressures on communities, infrastructure, services and housing that it creates.

 

And yet, those people taking advantage of free movement paid more in than they ever took out.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

 

The problems in communities, infrastructure, services and housing were a directl result of incompetance by the UK (which could always control it), and not the EU or our membership of it.

 

Ofcourse, you already know this.

 

No. The best the Remain voters can offer now is for them (the losers) to demand that the winners explain themselves.

 

Telling that so far you haven't been able to, even when pressed several times.

 

We are leaving the corrupt and undemocratic EU. No further explanation necessary.

 

Make no mistake, if this goes pear shaped most people will be looking for some sort of explanation and someone to blame, and it won't be the EU.