I1L2T3 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 The argument as to referendum voting according to age is well put, but omits one factor. People change their minds over time, in the light of experience. Yes, the young might have voted Remain, just like my generation (I am 75 today, writing this after a celebratory cuppa) did in 1972. Then voting to join the European Economic Community - the EEC - was an easy choice. It was a good idea. However, over the last 45 years we have seen the EEC metamorphose into the EU, an entirely continental construct based on an ever expanding bureaucratic model. This now impacts on every aspect of our lives, resulting in two governments, etc. So, based on this experience, the young who voted "join" in 1972, are now the old who voted "leave" in 2016. I ask - if the result had been Remain - how might those in favour feel in a few years time. Would they be regretting their decision? ( And on an allied issue: some are arguing that the Leave victory is because of ignorance from Norman from Newcastle, or Doris from Dewsbury. But remember that they didn't ask for a referendum, this was a bright idea from Tristram and Rupert in a policy think tank somewhere in the Westminster bubble. It's the old adage - if you don't want the wrong answer - don't ask the question..............) The real issue is how voting demographics change in the next 3-4 years Look, we will have a transitional period which is going to be 2 years to begin with. It may get extended. The point about a transition period is that transitioning back is easier, and I think most of us (even and especially so the hard Brexit leaders) know that in 2-3 years time suggesting Brexit is the will of the people is going to look even more stupid than it does now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 That's an expensive word, £50bn and a slowing economy. You can't put a price on freedom. No figure is too big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 You can't put a price on freedom. No figure is too big. That’s why leaving is stupid. We’ll be less free than we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pss60 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) You can't put a price on freedom. No figure is too big. What freedom are we putting a price on? Which tyranny was occupying us and making our lives a misery before 2016? We have saddled our youngsters with a £100 billion Brexit bill and 10 years of extra austerity, with even more savage cuts to come for those who stupidly believed the poundshop Alf Garnetts of this country, which will all be the fault of those like yourself. The cause of our problems hasn't been Brussels but Westminster Tories, and it is Tories who have shafted us, not those Europeans you despise so much. You might not be able to put a price on freedom, but you can certainly put a price on stupidity. ---------- Post added 01-12-2017 at 09:21 ---------- "Stating facts " ? tell me as a leave voter , where have I ever "intimidated a foreigner" or made them feel "unsafe in this country " Answer that and maybe you could gain some credence ,but no , according to you , all leave voters are racist ,bigots There has been an upturn in not only intimidation of foreigners, but even the murder of foreigners in this country - largely encouraged by Brexiteers who have made them objects of hatred, and the murder of an MP who was a Remainer by one of these lunatics, who, had he carried this out in the US or China instead, would have been facing the death penalty he so richly deserves. That referendum was a rallying cry for all manner of nutters, and we saw the country become a more unpleasant place because of that. Hate crimes soar by 41% after the Brexit vote: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-hate-crimes-racism-eu-referendum-vote-attacks-increase-police-figures-official-a7358866.html Brexit strongly linked to xenophobia, scientists conclude: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/brexit-prejudice-scientists-link-foreigners-immigrants-racism-xenophobia-leave-eu-a8078586.html Racist hate crime is so out of control that even white British people are being attacked: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-racism-hate-crime-figures-rise-white-british-being-attacked-a7360836.html There's plenty more where these came from. Edited December 1, 2017 by pss60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 What freedom? Which tyranny was occupying us and making our lives a misery before 2016? We have saddled our youngsters with a £100 billion Brexit bill and 10 years of extra austerity, with even more savage cuts to come for those who stupidly believed the poundshop Alf Garnetts of this country, which will all be the fault of those like yourself. The cause of our problems hasn't been Brussels but Westminster Tories, and it is Tories who have shafted us, not those Europeans you despise so much. You might not be able to put a price on freedom, but you can certainly put a price on stupidity. ---------- Post added 01-12-2017 at 09:21 ---------- There has been an upturn in not only intimidation of foreigners, but even the murder of foreigners in this country - largely encouraged by Brexiteers who have made them objects of hatred, and the murder of an MP who was a Remainer by one of these lunatics, who, had he carried this out in the US or China instead, would have been facing the death penalty he so richly deserves. That referendum was a rallying cry for all manner of nutters, and we saw the country become a more unpleasant place because of that. Hate crimes soar by 41% after the Brexit vote: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-hate-crimes-racism-eu-referendum-vote-attacks-increase-police-figures-official-a7358866.html Brexit strongly linked to xenophobia, scientists conclude: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/brexit-prejudice-scientists-link-foreigners-immigrants-racism-xenophobia-leave-eu-a8078586.html Racist hate crime is so out of control that even white British people are being attacked: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-racism-hate-crime-figures-rise-white-british-being-attacked-a7360836.html There's plenty more where these came from. Can we have them all, it'll help to get it out of your system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pss60 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Can we have them all, it'll help to get it out of your system. Go and google them, or are you too lazy to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delayed Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 The argument as to referendum voting according to age is well put, but omits one factor. People change their minds over time, in the light of experience. Yes, the young might have voted Remain, just like my generation (I am 75 today, writing this after a celebratory cuppa) did in 1972. Then voting to join the European Economic Community - the EEC - was an easy choice. It was a good idea. However, over the last 45 years we have seen the EEC metamorphose into the EU, an entirely continental construct based on an ever expanding bureaucratic model. This now impacts on every aspect of our lives, resulting in two governments, etc. So, based on this experience, the young who voted "join" in 1972, are now the old who voted "leave" in 2016. I ask - if the result had been Remain - how might those in favour feel in a few years time. Would they be regretting their decision? ( And on an allied issue: some are arguing that the Leave victory is because of ignorance from Norman from Newcastle, or Doris from Dewsbury. But remember that they didn't ask for a referendum, this was a bright idea from Tristram and Rupert in a policy think tank somewhere in the Westminster bubble. It's the old adage - if you don't want the wrong answer - don't ask the question..............) I'm surprised your opinion has been taken into account. According to some posters on here, you are 75 so you are going to die soon and be replaced:roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pss60 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) I'm surprised your opinion has been taken into account. According to some posters on here, you are 75 so you are going to die soon and be replaced:roll: He might not be dead, but at least 25% of those who voted Brexit will be in 10 years time. Far fewer Remainers, being on average over 20 years younger, will have popped it, they'll be much less likely to change their minds, and there will be another 10 years worth of youngsters joining the electoral register, should a new referendum come in the mid-late 2020s, not to mention those Brexiteers who change their minds once they see the folly of their ways in the form of much slower growth or even recession, they and their area getting poorer, employers upping sticks, and the anger of that £100 billion bill - enough to electrify the Midland Mainline 120 times over, and we know what has happened to that - and we know there is a far better way to spend that money than doing so just to please a bunch of foreigner-hating poundshop Alf Garnetts. Edited December 1, 2017 by pss60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 You can't put a price on freedom. No figure is too big. You're now 'free' from your elected representatives in Brussels, and instead in the control of your elected representatives in Westminster. Who in reality were always in control. Well done. Freedom. Sovrinty. Stupid argument. Swallowed the lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Go and google them, or are you too lazy to do that? That pent up anger will make your eyes pop out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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