The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[Lockdoctor]

Scotland and London don't have a border with the EU.

You have previously said that the referendum result overrides everything because it's the democratic will of the people,so that means anything that Scotland or London might want,so you quite clearly are changing your tune.

You have missed the point and don't seem to understand that the agreement rejected by the DUP yesterday would have effectively kept Northern Ireland in the EU, while the rest of the UK would still be leaving the EU.

[melthebell]

You have missed the point and don't seem to understand that the agreement rejected by the DUP yesterday would have effectively kept Northern Ireland in the EU, while the rest of the UK would still be leaving the EU.

 

exactly, Brexit in reality is unworkable, especially as everybody who voted for it want.

[tzijlstra]

Judging by the amount of reaction by the Brexiteers it seems dear Ms Foster has the UK by the scruff of the neck. The UK is caught in its own trappings and yet it is still the EU's fault somehow?

 

Odd.

 

Interesting article in The Zeit Online - 'We were worried the EU might break due to Brexit, we were wrong, it is the United Kingdom that is breaking and the EU that is galvanised as a result.'

 

It basically explains how the infighting in the UK is constantly deteriorating the UK's position in the talks with the EU. I recently spoke with a friend who works for the ALDE party in the EP and he reckons that May already had to significantly up her compensation offer as a result of the grand-standing by David Davis and co in the negotiations. The only way this is going to work out is by May greasing the DUP palms even more.

 

It's alright though, Arlene Foster knows a thing or two about distributing the money directly to the wealthiest land-owners considering her messing up of the 'wood pellet' subsidies.

[chalga]

You have missed the point and don't seem to understand that the agreement rejected by the DUP yesterday would have effectively kept Northern Ireland in the EU, while the rest of the UK would still be leaving the EU.

 

I haven't missed the point at all,which is you changing your stance to fit the circumstance around the argument on the Irish border,you have called for everybody in the UK,whatever they voted,to get behind Brexit,now you are saying that if the deal is passed on N.Ireland,it would be unfair to London and Scotland as they voted remain,so how does that call fit in with your previous posts saying that everybody,remain included,to get behind Brexit and a democratic vote?

[Lockdoctor]

exactly, Brexit in reality is unworkable, especially as everybody who voted for it want.

Brexit is only workable, if there is a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic or if the Irish Republic also leave the EU.

 

---------- Post added 05-12-2017 at 14:21 ----------

 

I haven't missed the point at all,which is you changing your stance to fit the circumstance around the argument on the Irish border,you have called for everybody in the UK,whatever they voted,to get behind Brexit,now you are saying that if the deal is passed on N.Ireland,it would be unfair to London and Scotland as they voted remain,so how does that call fit in with your previous posts saying that everybody,remain included,to get behind Brexit and a democratic vote?

I haven't change my original stance about the whole of the UK pulling together and accepting Brexit. My thoughts about the Irish border may have changed as a consequence of recent developments.

[chalga]

Bombshell:

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/05/theresa-may-struggles-to-rescue-brexit-deal-as-dublin-says-it-wont-back-down-politics-live?page=with:block-5a269c294cd919066cd812e0#liveblog-navigation

 

 

 

Here is the key line from David Davis.

 

Davis, the Brexit secretary, said that the government wanted the whole of the UK to have “regulatory alignment” with the EU after Brexit. Effectively he was conceded something that Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Conservative leader, proposed only this morning. (See 10.08am.) Davis made the point most explicitly in response to a question from the pro-remain Conservative MP Antoinette Sandbach, who asked for the “regulatory alignment” condition in the Brexit deal almost signed yesterday to apply to the whole of the UK. Davis replied:

The presumption of the discussion was that everything we talked about applied to the whole United Kingdom. I re-iterate: alignment isn’t harmonisation, it isn’t having exactly the same rules. It is sometimes having mutually recognised rules, mutually recognised inspection, all of that sort of thing as well. And that is what we are aiming for.

 

Davis repeatedly said that regulatory alignment would not involve the UK harmonising its rules with the EU. And he claimed that what he was saying about regulatory alignment had been set out by Theresa May in her Florence speech (see 1pm), although his words today seemed to go much further.

 

Later, in response to a question from Labour’s Stephen Timms (see 1.33pm), Davis said the UK would only be seeking “regulatory alignment” with the UK in the event of a trade deal. He implied that, if there were no trade deal, the UK would consider itself free to diverge.

 

 

 

And:

 

EU official on DD's suggestion that whole of UK will align with EU regs. "The UK will not have any say on the decisions taken in Brussels and will basically implement them without having any influence over them... it makes the UK kind of a regulatory 'protectorate" of Brussels

 

 

As David Davis goes on today, it is clearer that he sees the answer on regulatory alignment as some sort of rebadging exercise, ie. their rules, our name: “[A] mutual recognition and alignment of standards that does not mean the same standards but one that gives similar results".

Edited December 5, 2017 by chalga

[RJRB]

Here are some other sweeping generalisations.

 

"The remainers are the ones who are equipped to pull this country out of the mess."

 

Apparently everyone that voted remain as the intellectual capacity to sort this country out.

 

"Are pensioners and poorly educated people going to put the necessary graft and mental effort in? No"

 

Anyone over the age of 60 or did not get x number of GCSE's are too stupid to help

 

"The people who you depend on to fix this mess are the ones who are getting severely peed off."

 

All remainers whom the country is so dependent upon are getting a little bit annoyed that things aren't going their way.

I would add

 

And those that voted for Brexit were fully aware of the ramifications as they stepped off the cliff.

And that immigration was only a minor consideration in their reasoning.

[I1L2T3]

And there you have it in a nutshell. The hubris, the arrogance, the complete and utter lack of empathy and awareness of what goes on outside their little world.

 

^^^ THIS is why people voted Leave.

 

Welcome to your future, by your reckoning it might be as uncomfortable for you as it's been for millions of others for years.

 

It’s the truth.

 

Middle earners pay through the nose to keep the benefits system and the - unfunded remember - pension systems rolling.

 

You need hard workers. You need skilled workers. You need young people. You need taxes.

 

You are pee-zing off and continuously attacking the demographic that provides what this country needs to pull itself out the Brexit mire.

 

Hard Brexit - bring it on and see how we/you do.

 

And if I personally don’t leave then the shortage of my skills will push my wages much higher.

 

---------- Post added 05-12-2017 at 18:02 ----------

 

I would add

 

And those that voted for Brexit were fully aware of the ramifications as they stepped off the cliff.

And that immigration was only a minor consideration in their reasoning.

 

Like hell.

 

Most of them inhabit a fantasy world. It’s like a cult in a magical world where serious actions have no consequences. And where the objectives of the cult leaders matter so much their disciples wouldn’t care about the consequences anyway.

 

Let’s put it to the test.

Edited December 5, 2017 by I1L2T3

[ENG601PM]

It’s the truth.

 

Middle earners pay through the nose to keep the benefits system and the - unfunded remember - pension systems rolling.

 

You need hard workers. You need skilled workers. You need young people. You need taxes.

 

You are pee-zing off and continuously attacking the demographic that provides what this country needs to pull itself out the Brexit mire.

 

Hard Brexit - bring it on and see how we/you do.

 

And if I personally don’t leave then the shortage of my skills will push my wages much higher.

 

---------- Post added 05-12-2017 at 18:02 ----------

 

 

Like hell.

 

Most of them inhabit a fantasy world. It’s like a cult in a magical world where serious actions have no consequences. And where the objectives of the cult leaders matter so much their disciples wouldn’t care about the consequences anyway.

 

Let’s put it to the test.

Yet more stunning lack of self awareness. That's the hubris you think you see in others my friend, it's your hubris, not theirs. Anyone would think that the 195 countries in the world were all in the EU. Perhaps you could get out more.

 

Incidentally, the top 1% are really paying through the nose. You middle earners are merely playing around the edges.

[I1L2T3]

Yet more stunning lack of self awareness. That's the hubris you think you see in others my friend, it's your hubris, not theirs. Anyone would think that the 195 countries in the world were all in the EU. Perhaps you could get out more.

 

Incidentally, the top 1% are really paying through the nose. You middle earners are merely playing around the edges.

 

Like I said let’s put it to the test. While you are waiting I suggest you check where tax revenue really comes from.

 

You need the middle earners, the young, the workers, the tax payers.

 

All you do is attack them.