Lockdoctor Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 *my bold I don't dispute it either. It was one of the biggest and most sucessful and misleading impressions that the Leave campaign implied that voting out would give us. If thats what you want. It could have been, and maybe will be, achieved by other means without chucking the baby out with the bath water. I don't want anything, but the referendum result should be respected regardless of whether the democratic people reasons for voting either way were correct or wrong. Both campaigns spouted misleading information. ---------- Post added 09-12-2017 at 20:57 ---------- Why doesn’t it make a difference? As part of our now All but guaranteed soft Brexit we could choose to implement the controls that we haven’t previously. We’d have greater control of migration and actually still be managing it in a way consistent with other EU countries. That way transition from a soft Brexit back into the EU becauses easier. It seems to be entirely sensible. Makes no difference because the EU allows freedom of movement and one of the main reasons people voted to leave the EU is because they no longer wanted freedom of movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Not true is it. Yes it is. That people voted for the leave lies is not his problem. I didn't say it was. The consequences lie squarely with those who chose to execute A50 off a flimsy advisory referendum. Yes and no. Cameron wanted the referendum to boost his standing as he, like many others, though it would be an overwhelming vote to stay in like it was in 1973. The wording of the Act to hold the referendum was flawed and so was the wording for the choices, which had already been amended once. It was within parliaments powers to amend it further and add conditions but they didn't. It was not considered that a Leave win was ever on the cards. That is where parliament failed and subsequently had to agree to the passing of A50. You can’t blame the electorate for subsequent events. That's exactly what I said, but it still does not stop people on here doing so does it. Do you blame the liar or those that get taken in by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I don't want anything, but the referendum result should be respected regardless of whether the democratic people reasons for voting either way were correct or wrong. Both campaigns spouted misleading information. ---------- Post added 09-12-2017 at 20:57 ---------- Makes no difference because the EU allows freedom of movement and one of the main reasons people voted to leave the EU is because they no longer wanted freedom of movement. They voted against it because they didn’t understand it, and also most likely didn’t know that the U.K. has long had an arsenal of measures it chose not to deploy. Do you think there would have been the same support if people had been informed of the realities of the situation? You see it absolutely does make a difference if people voted based on misconceptions and misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 They voted against it because they didn’t understand it, and also most likely didn’t know that the U.K. has long had an arsenal of measures it chose not to deploy. Do you think there would have been the same support if people had been informed of the realities of the situation? You see it absolutely does make a difference if people voted based on misconceptions and misinformation. There are no legal grounds for over ruling the referendum result. I think the Electoral Commission or some other commission or authority judged everything including the campaigns to be fair under the official guidelines. Stating people didn't understand something is your personal biased opinion, most likely because you personally don't respect peoples reasons for voting to leave the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) You see it absolutely does make a difference if people voted based on misconceptions and misinformation. At EVERY election people vote based on prejudices, misconceptions and misinformation. As well as truth and opinion. All mixed up by a mass media. Remainers seem very naive about the reality of elections in a parliamentary democracy. But the end result is what matters, and the majority voted to Leave. The democratically expressed desire of the electorate must be respected, and obeyed. Edited December 9, 2017 by Car Boot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackey lad Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I really thought that after phase 1 was completed ,that there would be some happiness on this thread , because we are moving forward . But all I see is all the same old bitterness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flanker7 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 There are no legal grounds for over ruling the referendum result. I think the Electoral Commission or some other commission or authority judged everything including the campaigns to be fair under the official guidelines. Stating people didn't understand something is your personal biased opinion, most likely because you personally don't respect peoples reasons for voting to leave the EU. There is nothing legal to over rule. The referendum resulted in an advisory message to the Government. The fact that the Government and the Labour Party have stated they will take action as a result of that advice is neither here nor there. Any future referendum or election will give a new mandate to the winning party. It will be the most recent mandate from the electorate and therefore take precedence over older votes. Lets hope all sides have a detailed manifesto or if its a referendum a meaningful choice. Gove says we may get that choice. But as almost anyone can realise, as I'm sure Gove does, a lot more water will have flowed under the bridge by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 At EVERY election people vote based on prejudices, misconceptions and misinformation. As well as truth and opinion. All mixed up by a mass media. Remainers seem very naive about the reality of elections in a parliamentary democracy. But the end result is what matters, and the majority voted to Leave. The democratically expressed desire of the electorate must be respected, and obeyed. the referendum was always and only advisory, in our manifestation of democracy it can't really be anything else but advisory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 There are no legal grounds for over ruling the referendum result. I think the Electoral Commission or some other commission or authority judged everything including the campaigns to be fair under the official guidelines. Stating people didn't understand something is your personal biased opinion, most likely because you personally don't respect peoples reasons for voting to leave the EU. I don’t think the result should be overturned or overruled. But another referendum that is based on information and facts from both sides makes sense. We will effectively get this anyway because the next election - even if the current parliament runs to term - will very likely be during the transition period. The election would be very likely to be run on accept/reject platforms based on the post-transition deal on the table. The beauty of a soft Brexit is that transition back into the EU, or into the EEA or EFTA should be pretty straightforward. ---------- Post added 09-12-2017 at 23:17 ---------- I really thought that after phase 1 was completed ,that there would be some happiness on this thread , because we are moving forward . But all I see is all the same old bitterness Why would people be happy. The country is getting wrecked. The only comfort is the level of damage limitation that is possible. ---------- Post added 09-12-2017 at 23:20 ---------- At EVERY election people vote based on prejudices, misconceptions and misinformation. As well as truth and opinion. All mixed up by a mass media. Remainers seem very naive about the reality of elections in a parliamentary democracy. But the end result is what matters, and the majority voted to Leave. The democratically expressed desire of the electorate must be respected, and obeyed. It wasn’t an election. It was an advisory referendum. If we have another referendum and you lose you will respect and obey the result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 There are no legal grounds for over ruling the referendum result it was always advisory so there are plenty of grounds for parliament to over rule the referendum result, but that was never going to happen so i dont know why all the brexiter folk are getting in a tizzy about this possibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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