altus Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 I really thought that after phase 1 was completed ,that there would be some happiness on this thread , because we are moving forward . But all I see is all the same old bitterness I'm rather cheered by the way things are going. Since the agreement announced on Friday no deal now means full alignment with the single market and customs union rather than WTO rules. This means that hard brexiters are going to have to propose and justify things rather than just stamp their feet and yell 'NOT THAT' at anything they don't like. I'm surprised that more brexiters haven't commented on that. Perhaps they haven't realised it's significance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 but what if your country has said it doesn't want you? i feel unwelcome and unwanted and am starting to think it's time to turn my back on a country which even though it has in the past done all those things but is now turning it's back on me. Well it’s been nothing less than a media onslaught against people who voted remain. People who voted remain have been described as not normal, not decent, not patriotic, saboteurs, traitors. You name it. The dog whistles have worked perfectly and there have even been people on this thread and other forums and comment pages openly wishing for the middle earners, successful people and the well educated to be damaged by the Brexit process. How idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Whatever is agreed will be criticised by both politicians, who voted to leave and people who voted to remain. I think Tim Martin would do a better job by having a no deal with the EU and no transition period. A no deal would mean the UK would be free to have zero tariffs on food imported from anywhere in the World. Everyone benefits from cheaper food. and our local farmers and growers go out of business or we have to reduce standards so low that the you don't know what you are eating is what it says it is or is even safe to eat. at the end of the day we would end up with zero food security, it wouldn't take a great deal to upset global supply lines especially as they are all very much run on the just in time basis so there are next to no stocks of things to cover blips in supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 The EU economic nomad way. No loyalty or sense of belonging to a country that educated you, your family and earlier generations. A country that looked after you and your children when you were sick. Gave you opportunities. Put a safety net in place with its welfare state when you needed it. No sense of giving something back. No sense of owing a debt of gratitude. The EU, and global capitalism, seeks to undermine the sovereign nation state and replace it with a misguided loyalty to an artificial construct based upon a selfish financial reward. An economic nomad individual's worth is measured entirely by their earning power, and not paying into or belonging to a nation state is something to be celebrated. Selfish. Greedy. Vultures. This post shows everything that is wrong with the dogmatic Brexiteer. You haven't got a clue, have you? How is it my country that educated me, provided welfare etc. etc. when it is the people in that country that did so. My primary and secondary school teachers were human beings doing a job they wanted to do. My employers are people and so are my customers/clients. We live in a nation that comprises of its people, not of its rules and interpretations. And here is the shocker Car Boot - this nation has always thrived on non-natives, ever since it decided that the world was a global stage ready for empire. I'd argue it was you, as a Brit, that could be characterised as a greedy vulture, how does your argument to stop funding the EU (which distributes the money to other nations where it is needed more) match with the nonsense you just spouted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 The EU economic nomad way. No loyalty or sense of belonging to a country that educated you, your family and earlier generations. A country that looked after you and your children when you were sick. Gave you opportunities. Put a safety net in place with its welfare state when you needed it. No sense of giving something back. No sense of owing a debt of gratitude. The EU, and global capitalism, seeks to undermine the sovereign nation state and replace it with a misguided loyalty to an artificial construct based upon a selfish financial reward. An economic nomad individual's worth is measured entirely by their earning power, and not paying into or belonging to a nation state is something to be celebrated. Selfish. Greedy. Vultures. Straight out of the Putin/Trump,we know what's better for you than you do,songbook,stifle individuality and a sense of adventure and play the patriot card..............thank god that many of the young can see through it,and them,for the brainwashing nonsense that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 I'm rather cheered by the way things are going. Since the agreement announced on Friday no deal now means full alignment with the single market and customs union rather than WTO rules. This means that hard brexiters are going to have to propose and justify things rather than just stamp their feet and yell 'NOT THAT' at anything they don't like. I'm surprised that more brexiters haven't commented on that. Perhaps they haven't realised it's significance. I have to say that Theresa May has done very well. Fair play to her as she worked hard for that on Friday. Worthy of praise. Problem is that the hard Brexiters are now getting increasingly worked up and this is all going to start festering again pretty soon. Only a hard Brexit is good enough for them, and my view is that we may have to let that happen because it’s the only way they’ll learn. Obviously their leaders will become billionaires out of it but the foot soldiers need to experience the consequences to understand their folly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bargepole23 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 This post shows everything that is wrong with the dogmatic Brexiteer. You haven't got a clue, have you? How is it my country that educated me, provided welfare etc. etc. when it is the people in that country that did so. My primary and secondary school teachers were human beings doing a job they wanted to do. My employers are people and so are my customers/clients. We live in a nation that comprises of its people, not of its rules and interpretations. And here is the shocker Car Boot - this nation has always thrived on non-natives, ever since it decided that the world was a global stage ready for empire. I'd argue it was you, as a Brit, that could be characterised as a greedy vulture, how does your argument to stop funding the EU (which distributes the money to other nations where it is needed more) match with the nonsense you just spouted? Couldn't agree more. Remember that country that welcomed the world to the 2012 Olympic Games? I loved that outgoing, welcoming inclusive country. I was proud of it. This one that is turning in on itself. Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Trump is attacking the WTO https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-42200390 If the WTO is our no deal fallback plan any Brexiters care to explain what the new fallback plan is should Trump manage to take down the WTO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Trump is attacking the WTO https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-42200390 If the WTO is our no deal fallback plan any Brexiters care to explain what the new fallback plan is should Trump manage to take down the WTO. most of the rest of the world seems to like the WTO, so I presume they will form a new one without the US and carry on as before. of course, this would undermine the US's position in the world and open up a vacuum in the leadership of the free trade world which china would probably rush to fill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 most of the rest of the world seems to like the WTO, so I presume they will form a new one without the US and carry on as before. of course, this would undermine the US's position in the world and open up a vacuum in the leadership of the free trade world which china would probably rush to fill The puzzle is why free trade Farage and protectionist Trump are bedfellows. Or maybe not - the thing that connects them is xenophobic right wing populism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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