The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[Magilla]

It's the detail that I'm interested in - not the flag waving "let's leave the rest to someone else".

 

Quite. One things certain, unless it's a EEA membership type deal (technically, still leaving the EU) it's not going to be as good as we have now.

[Car Boot]

That's nice. Did they say what "Brexit" actually is?

 

Yes.

 

'Brexit' is the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union (EU).

 

Brexit means to Leave the EU.

 

I hope that explains it for you?

[Flexo]

Yes.

 

'Brexit' is the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union (EU).

 

Brexit means to Leave the EU.

 

I hope that explains it for you?

 

It confirms to me that's as far as leave voters think. You want it now and someone else must work out the detail?

 

How will cross-border data protection laws work after Brexit, please? At present they are to be harmonised under the General Data Protection Regulations and we'll be able to deal with disputes via the ECJ. Will that still be the case? If not then my firm's European customers will migrate their business away from us.

[L00b]

Quite. One things certain, unless it's a EEA membership type deal (technically, still leaving the EU) it's not going to be as good as we have now.

On my understanding that the above is said from an economical point of view, then unless even if "it's a EEA membership type deal (technically, still leaving the EU)" then it's still "not going to be as good as we have now".

 

That's because nothing short of EU membership can be "as good as we have now" (economically): that level of membership brings with it the freest form of international trade that exists -and has ever existed- anywhere on the planet, replete with the associated socio-economic advantages (both domestically and internationally when riding on the back of the EU-negotiated deals).

 

But well. The people of the UK have decided to leave that state of affairs. Fair enough, democratic decision, moreover made constitutionally-compliant by a Parliamentary vote. So that is the end of that. And it's wholly pointless wishing it were different or not going to be so.

 

Pragmatically, you can either remain in denial (irrespective of whether that is the Brexiters' denial about the consequences, or the Remainers' denial about their inevitability) and wait for these consequences to be visited upon you regardless; or accept the inevitable early, and so adapt fast to stay ahead.

 

It's all anyone can really do

Edited December 15, 2017 by L00b

[Magilla]

The audience members I quoted voted to Leave the European Union.

 

Clearly, from the quotes you posted, those people really haven't thought through what that involves beyond the Vote Leave slogans.

 

You don't believe we will leave?

 

Yeah, we'll leave, but I doubt the detail involved in doing that will make them happy.

 

Technically, EEA membership is still leaving the EU.

 

With the time constraints now in play, there's going to be a lot of concessions being made and so far they've all been made by the UK.

 

---------- Post added 15-12-2017 at 12:36 ----------

 

Yes.

 

'Brexit' is the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union (EU).

 

Brexit means to Leave the EU.

 

I hope that explains it for you?

 

Cool, like Norway then. Sorted!

Edited December 15, 2017 by Magilla

[Phanerothyme]

 

Cool, like Norway then. Sorted!

Like Norway, without the trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund.

[chalga]

The BBC1 'Question Time' programme was in Barnsley yesterday. The first question asked by a plucky member of the audience: "When will some MP's stop trying to subvert the will of the British people on Brexit?"

 

Public school educated, completely out of touch Nicky Morgan MP (Conservative) was passionate about taking back control for Parliament, and parliamentary sovereignty in particular. Pity she never mentioned this before we voted to Leave the EU.

 

Isabel Oakshott, Journalist, was on top form upsetting the sanctimonious Remainers. She stated: "We should not make any mistake how powerful the establishment vested interests are in making sure that we stay in the EU. And they will stop at nothing." Absolutely spot on.

 

Audience members were informed and unfazed by establishment conformist propaganda.

 

"I voted to Leave. On the ballot paper there was no 'now turn to question 2'. Do you want a hard Brexit or a soft Brexit?"

 

"What part of the word Leave is it that Remainers don't understand?"

 

"Remainers are undermining our country" said a rather beardy man.

 

Panelist Geoff Norcott, Comedian, stated that we are suffering the "death of Brexit by a thousand amendments".

 

Rebecca Long-Bailey MP (Labour) wants Brexit "to end the undercutting of pay by people shipped in from Europe". Excellent.

 

As Nicky Morgan stated about Brexit: "Embrace it. Love it. Agree with it."

 

This is why you're in the mess you're in...........part 256.

 

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-labour-appear-confused-over-how-to-leave-eu-2017-6

 

 

 

POLITICS

 

Labour confused over Brexit as another shadow minister says Britain could stay in single market

 

 

Shadow Business Secretary Rebecca Long-BaileyReuters

 

LONDON — Labour's Brexit policy has been thrown into further confusion after shadow minister Rebecca Long-Bailey suggested Britain could remain part of the European Single Market.

 

Speaking to the Today programme on Wednesday morning, the shadow business secretary said: "I think we accept the fact that if we are going to have impediment-free access to the single market then there will have to be some element of free movement."

 

The MP for Salford and Eccles continued: "It's a lot easier for business to be able to operate when it has a common set of regulations and we are calling for cooperation, whether that forms part of remaining part of the single market or having access to the single market is a moot point.

Edited December 15, 2017 by chalga

[Car Boot]

It confirms to me that's as far as leave voters think. You want it now and someone else must work out the detail?

 

I voted to Leave the EU.

 

Of course someone else will have to work out the details!

 

Because:

 

1) Politicians and career civil servants are paid large salaries with public money to do just this type of work.

 

2) The information required to 'work out the detail' of EU withdrawal includes very sensitive commercial, market and UK security material. This information is not readily accessible to the public. Nor should it be.

 

3) In a parliamentary democracy we have elected representatives (in the form of a government) who may implement the will of the people through democratic mandates given by electoral and referenda results.

 

Why some out of touch Remainers evidently believe that it is the electorate's responsibility AND NOT the executive's to 'work out the detail' of Brexit is beyond me. These people need to recognise that still fighting the Remain campaign is a lost cause.

[Phanerothyme]

I guess the lesson from all this is "define your terms."

 

When you ask a simplistic question, you're unlikely to get a useful answer. Brexit really is a case in point.

 

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

 

[ ] - Remain a member of the European Union

[ ] - Leave the European Union

 

Which means either:

• The EU, and all its individual institutions and agencies.
  
• The EU, but none of its individual institutions and agencies.
  
• The EU, but not all of its institutions and agencies.
  

 

That's three flavours of Brexit right there.

 

Add as many dimensions as you want, fiscal, environmental, constitutional.

 

Now imagine the ballot paper for that referendum. You'd need 3D glasses.

 

Which is why we have a representational democracy, rather than the knee-jerk actions of a direct democracy, I thought.

 

Nevertheless - we have voted for it, so let's all make it the best Brexit possible.

 

For a given definition of "best" - which could mean (depending on your outlook, inter alia):

• Retaining membership and/or cooperation with as many EU agencies and institutions as possible without being a member of the EU.
  
• Refusing membership and/or cooperation with all EU agencies and institutions as possible.
  
• Retaining membership and/or cooperation with selected EU agencies and institutions for purely national benefit, without being a member of the EU
  

 

Basically, we collectively lanced the boil on June 23rd last year, and now we're all covered in gallons of pus, pointing fingers of blame, whilst the wound festers on.

 

Progress!

[Flexo]

I voted to Leave the EU.

 

Of course someone else will have to work out the details!

 

Thank-you for confirming.

 

So, in the question which matters to my firm today about data protection regulations, is it:

 

A) The UK will not be part of the harmonised data protection regulations but will do it's own thing. It will not allow disputes to be settled in the European Court of Justice. Trying to service our business customers in Europe will therefore create additional red tape for both customer and supplier, and these costs mean the European customers will trade with European suppliers instead.

 

B) The UK will be part of the harmonised data protection regulations but will no longer be involved with their drafting ("the Norway option").

 

C) You don't care what happens the day after Brexit - you are thinking solely about the exit and not the future.