The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[I1L2T3]

I see that even the Express itself is reporting the latest poll findings, and they even have some analysis of them:

 

"... this shift has come predominantly from those who did not actually vote in the 2016 referendum, with around nine in ten Leave and Remain voters still unchanged in their view.

 

“Our polling suggests that about a year ago, those who did not vote in the referendum were broadly split, but today's poll shows that they are now overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in the EU, by a margin of more than four to one.”

 

My take on this is that non-voters were apathetic about the referendum due to not being particularly bothered about the EU one way or the other (like, I think, most people outside the Tory/UKIP hard core were, pre-referendum), but they're now realizing what's "on the end of their fork" as W.S.Burroughs might have put it. I don't think they'd still be non-voters.

 

Plus - and there is no way to put this nicely and trust me I am taking no delight in it - hundreds of thosands of leave voters are already dead and have been replaced with young voters who overwhelmingly support remain.

 

Five years down the line Brexit is going to look like the worst idea ever from a voter demographic perspective.

 

And to their credit the other EU countries are steering a course that will allow us back in with minimum fuss.

 

---------- Post added 17-12-2017 at 16:20 ----------

 

Polling indicated that Remain would easily win the most votes in the EU referendum.

 

Leave actually polled 1,269,501 votes MORE than Remain.

 

Polling suggested that Remain should have won over a million more votes than it actually did.

 

But that was in 2016.

 

It was just a snapshot. Things have moved on and the will of the people is very different now.

 

You see.....democracy does not work by anchoring to views at specific points in time. Views change and our democratic representatives have to change with them.

 

Let’s have a soft Brexit and take it from there. It’s the fairest solution.

Edited December 17, 2017 by I1L2T3

[Car Boot]

Let's leave the EU and maintain membership of as many EU agencies and institutions as possible without being a member.

 

Simple.

 

Would we still have to contribute to these EU agencies and institutions?

 

If so, and its not a freebie, we would be nothing more than a tributary state sending gold, produce and slaves as a mark of submission to an evil empire.

 

Do you advocate that we pay protection money to the EU?

[L00b]

Five years down the line Brexit is going to look like the worst idea ever from a voter demographic perspective.

 

And to their credit the other EU countries are steering a course that will allow us back in with minimum fuss.

I think you're wrong about that one.

 

Because if you're ever to come back in, it will be with the €uro and without the rebates and opt-outs. You can choose not to heed Verhofstadt on that front, but you can't ignore the plain black-and-white Statutes: they're not about to change on the 'ever closer union' front, now that the UK is out. It had its chance back in February 2016, but Cameron blew it with the referendum - one gamble too far.

 

And those are significantly bigger political sales job -in 10 years'time still- than Bremaining -even today-.

 

This is why Brexit is seen as such an unparalleled act of self-harm by observers outside the EU: it's lose-lose however it pans out, even in a decade's time.

[I1L2T3]

I think you're wrong about that one.

 

Because if you're ever to come back in, it will be with the €uro and without the rebates and opt-outs. You can choose not to heed Verhofstadt on that front, but you can't ignore the plain black-and-white Statutes: they're not about to change on the 'ever closer union' front, now that the UK is out. It had its chance back in February 2016, but Cameron blew it with the referendum - one gamble too far.

 

And those are significantly bigger political sales job -in 10 years'time still- than Bremaining -even today-.

 

This is why Brexit is seen as such an unparalleled act of self-harm by observers outside the EU: it's lose-lose however it pans out, even in a decade's time.

 

Wait and see Loob. I don’t think the EU is going to remain as doctrinaire as you believe.

 

We are different. In fact in many ways we are not a lot different to our Northern European brothers and sisters who mostly have contrary views on the EU. Iceland, Norway will probably never join. The Danes are nearly as bad as us for seeking opt-outs.

 

I’m starting to think that the EU will flex for this reality, and it will be a route back in.

 

They either want us in or out. I think they want us in and that they will be pragmatic, just like they have been in the past.

 

For now though it’s soft Brexit. Let’s take it from there.

 

---------- Post added 17-12-2017 at 16:47 ----------

 

Would we still have to contribute to these EU agencies and institutions?

 

If so, and its not a freebie, we would be nothing more than a tributary state sending gold, produce and slaves as a mark of submission to an evil empire.

 

Do you advocate that we pay protection money to the EU?

 

Yes we will have to contribute. Because we benefit greatly.

 

I’m fed up with your hard Brexit dressed up as Lexit.

 

It’s transparent, and tiring.

[RJRB]

I think you're wrong about that one.

 

Because if you're ever to come back in, it will be with the €uro and without the rebates and opt-outs. You can choose not to heed Verhofstadt on that front, but you can't ignore the plain black-and-white Statutes: they're not about to change on the 'ever closer union' front, now that the UK is out. It had its chance back in February 2016, but Cameron blew it with the referendum - one gamble too far.

 

And those are significantly bigger political sales job -in 10 years'time still- than Bremaining -even today-.

 

This is why Brexit is seen as such an unparalleled act of self-harm by observers outside the EU: it's lose-lose however it pans out, even in a decade's time.

 

I can’t agree with this.

 

I think that we would have a much better negotiating position if we were able to offer the possibility of returning to the fold.

We have arrived at this position at least partly because of the intransigence of the EU in acceding to the UKs demands and their belief that the threat to leave was a bluff.

There are many in Europe who know that losing us will be detrimental to their trade,and to European unity.

We have gone to the brink but there’s no need to step into this abyss without at least discussing just how much Brussels wants us to remain.

[chalga]

I can’t agree with this.

 

I think that we would have a much better negotiating position if we were able to offer the possibility of returning to the fold.

We have arrived at this position at least partly because of the intransigence of the EU in acceding to the UKs demands and their belief that the threat to leave was a bluff.

There are many in Europe who know that losing us will be detrimental to their trade,and to European unity.

We have gone to the brink but there’s no need to step into this abyss without at least discussing just how much Brussels wants us to remain.

 

The Tories are more interested in themselves and power in the UK,they know that the only way to do that is to lance the boil that tears them apart on a daily basis...........EU membership.

Europe does not want to be held hostage to the petty squabbles of these Little Englanders,and to be affected by the decisions brought by the UK government to the EU table,held hostage by the backwoodsmen of UKIP MEP'S,and have their people subject to scapegoating,fearmongering and the rest............the EU needs the boil lanced as well,for the good of the EU and all its people.............out means out,forever.

[mafya]

The Tories are more interested in themselves and power in the UK,they know that the only way to do that is to lance the boil that tears them apart on a daily basis...........EU membership.

Europe does not want to be held hostage to the petty squabbles of these Little Englanders,and to be affected by the decisions brought by the UK government to the EU table,held hostage by the backwoodsmen of UKIP MEP'S,and have their people subject to scapegoating,fearmongering and the rest............the EU needs the boil lanced as well,for the good of the EU and all its people.............out means out,forever.

 

my bold=

That's what brexiteers want, it's the remainers that are finding it difficult to cut the EU apron strings...

[chalga]

[/b]

 

my bold=

That's what brexiteers want, it's the remainers that are finding it difficult to cut the EU apron strings...

 

That's nothing to do with the EU,that's your own political squabble,another reason why the EU should always regard the UK as more trouble than they're worth.

[hackey lad]

It’s going to be soft Brexit now.

 

And it seems that public sentiment is turning against Brexit with a poll showing that remain is now 10% ahead. Every day the demographic shifts towards remain.

 

There is no way any politician can force through a hard Brexit now. It’s unthinkable. The actions of the 11 Tory MPs last week have been decisive. They are national heroes.

 

By the way I’m still waiting for one single Brexiter on this thread to condemn the death threats to the 11 Tory rebels.

 

Im a brexiter and I condemn death threats to Anyone

[I1L2T3]

Im a brexiter and I condemn death threats to Anyone

 

Thanks. As far as I’m aware the first Brexiter on here to explicitly state that since the recent threats to Grieve, Soubry and the others.

 

Respect due.