L00b Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) I can’t agree with this. I think that we would have a much better negotiating position if we were able to offer the possibility of returning to the fold. We have arrived at this position at least partly because of the intransigence of the EU in acceding to the UKs demands and their belief that the threat to leave was a bluff. There are many in Europe who know that losing us will be detrimental to their trade,and to European unity. We have gone to the brink but there’s no need to step into this abyss without at least discussing just how much Brussels wants us to remain. You don't have to agree. But that's the legal situation, from which the gepolitical situation stems. The time at which to exert the brinksmanship which you mention, was before triggering Article 50, effectively threaten the EU with doing it. Not after. And still less so with making so much noise about divergence in the past 12 months, when everybody in the EU has been crystal clear since the day after the referendum, that they would not sanction any outcome which undermines the Single Market. German car manufacturers first amongst them. You've been past the brink since March 2017. The sooner you -and everyone else, Brexiter like Remainer- understand and accept it, the more orderly and the less damaging the UK exit can be. EDIT: I'm afraid you've also got the 'intransigeance' and 'bluff' thing completely wrong. The EU is not intransigeant, it is simply following its Statutes and due process (which is what makes Brexit outcomes and consequences so predictable, to date and to continue). It's the UK which did not -and still does not- understand what the EU is and how it works. Which why the UK has done nothing else but give in and row back ever since the negotiations started. There's a lot more of that come I'm afraid. Silver lining is that the UK is learning in the process. Late, and it's going to be a painful lesson. But well. We are where we are, no point crying over spilt milk. Edited December 17, 2017 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Its very strange, but those demanding another referendum on our EU membership condemned Cameron for holding the last one, moaning that it was completely unnecessary. I wish they would make their minds up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackey lad Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Thanks. As far as I’m aware the first Brexiter on here to explicitly state that since the recent threats to Grieve, Soubry and the others. Respect due. I said Anyone , not just the tory rebels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I said Anyone , not just the tory rebels That may be, but my point was about the death threats since the parliamentary defeat for May this week. Respect still due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackey lad Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 That may be, but my point was about the death threats since the parliamentary defeat for May this week. Respect still due. Ok , no problem ---------- Post added 17-12-2017 at 21:08 ---------- As I have said before, many statements in this thread are lies - including this - please stop using your ignorance for personal attacks. Bit ironic that . Any chance of a reply to post 5267 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 The EU is not a thing by itself - it’s 28 separate countries. ...until the U.S.E. arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 ...until the U.S.E. arises. Ah,so that's the fearmonger today,tommorrow it's the 'dominoes will fall once the UK leaves'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 A lot of people seem to be taking the EU is an enemy stance too far. The EU is not a thing by itself - it’s 28 separate countries. Do the five EU Presidents know that the EU is "not a thing by itself"? European Commission President: Jean-Claude Juncker. President of the Euro Summit: Donald Tusk. President of the Eurogroup: Jeroen Dijsselbloem. President of the European Central Bank: Mario Draghi. President of the European Parliament: Martin Schulz. All of these important men with their important titles believe that the EU is 'an entity that transcends the sum of its parts'. The EU, in other words, is much more important than any member state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackey lad Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Ah,so that's the fearmonger today,tommorrow it's the 'dominoes will fall once the UK leaves'. Holy smoke , theres been plenty of fearmongerering on here from remainers , from ,day one ---------- Post added 17-12-2017 at 22:00 ---------- Do the five EU Presidents know that the EU is "not a thing by itself"? European Commission President: Jean-Claude Juncker. President of the Euro Summit: Donald Tusk. President of the Eurogroup: Jeroen Dijsselbloem. President of the European Central Bank: Mario Draghi. President of the European Parliament: Martin Schulz. All of these important men with their important titles believe that the EU is 'an entity that transcends the sum of its parts'. The EU, in other words, is much more important than any member state. One of the reasons I voted to leave , too many chiefs ( theres many more)who have to justify their positions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 ...until the U.S.E. arises. Is that a prediction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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