Gormenghast Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I'm not arguing. I'm simply explaining why I'm right. Says Loob. What's that old saying............. Oh yes. Pride comes before a fall........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I'm not arguing. I'm simply explaining why I'm right. Says Loob. What's that old saying............. Oh yes. Pride comes before a fall........... What fall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I'm not arguing. I'm simply explaining why I'm right. Says Loob. What's that old saying............. Oh yes. Pride comes before a fall........... Are you out of goats to molest or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Yet another example of the UKs waning influence:- https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/18/brexit-blow-as-satellite-monitoring-centre-moves-from-uk-to-spain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Yet another example of the UKs waning influence:- https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/18/brexit-blow-as-satellite-monitoring-centre-moves-from-uk-to-spain Its not as if the UK had much influence before Brexit, is it? As David Cameron found to his cost when he renegotiated his 'reform' deal with Brussels. As Jean-Claude Juncker said at the time: "We have concluded a deal with the prime minister. He got the maximum he could receive and we gave the maximum we could give." Which was a maximum of nothing. Because the EU cannot be reformed. It was this lack of influence that made many people vote to Leave the Brussels big business club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) Its not as if the UK had much influence before Brexit, is it? I guess you couldn't find the silver lining there There is no doubt, Brexit has damaged the UKs standing, and continues to do so. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/20/britain-without-judge-international-court-justice-first-time/ I see Macron had to explain it to May yet again yesterday, she won't be getting her cake and eating it https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/18/macron-rebuffs-city-deal-after-brexit-unless-uk-pays-into-eu-budget ---------- Post added 19-01-2018 at 06:42 ---------- Pride comes before a fall........... You mean like "the EU can go whistle"? In that case the fall has already happened...... Pride indeed! Edited January 19, 2018 by Magilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENG601PM Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I've read that one of the first thing on the table from India is an vastly increased number of student visas to be made available. Ive read it somewhere I'll try and find a link. That wasn't the claim though. India and other places have made it clear that the price of a free trade deal will be ease of movementof their citizens into the uk. Of course visas are on the table, but no "nations have made it clear" that I have seen. A few diplomats have suggested it, but people should have learned by now that diplomats say all sorts before and during negotiations. For example, Indian student visas to the UK were cut recently (another Theresa May debacle) and India obviously wants to change that. What's likely to be on the table is mutual visas for professionals and high skill workers and students. What's not likely to be on the table, or even suggested, is EU style open borders. Basically it's the same situation as we have now but with mutual trade enablement deals baked into it. I don't see how anyone can get aerated about visas being part of the trade deals that the UK has been unable to do previously. Too many people are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome and are desperate to see the UK as a helpless child with nothing to offer but a begging bowl, but that just isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) What's likely to be on the table is mutual visas for professionals and high skill workers and students. What's not likely to be on the table, or even suggested, is EU style open borders.So let me get this straight: for maintaining (ho-hum) trading levels, after hollowing out the working class with importing east European jobbers, the plan is to hollow out the middle class with importing Commonwealth jobbers? Smart I don't see how anyone can get aerated about visas being part of the trade deals that the UK has been unable to do previously.I can, very easily, when one recounts the main planks of argument of the Leave campaign- reducing immigration: increasing non-EU visas will change little if anything to UK immigration levels (when existing visa-subjected non-EU immigration has already long been higher than EU immigration under the FoM already) ; and "regaining control": replacing FoM with the EU, with more lax visa rules for third party nationals (as dictated to by 'new' trade partners for FTAs like India, Australia...there'll be a queue, because of the precedent that sets) changes little if anything. Basically it's the same situation as we have now but with mutual trade enablement deals baked into it.Quite true to an extent, per the above: just as much immigration, less from the EU, more from outside the EU; with the UK still just as dependent upon fundamental principles of reciprocity and balance of power in international trading/diplomacy (like all other countries the world over). But then, minus the scaling advantage of the UK conferred by its EU membership, of course. So, Brexit simply amounts to a geopolitical game of musical chairs, baking in a partial loss of influence. So, again...what's the benefit? Edited January 19, 2018 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENG601PM Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 So let me get this straight: for maintaining (ho-hum) trading levels, after hollowing out the working class with importing east European jobbers, the plan is to hollow out the middle class with importing Commonwealth jobbers? Haven't you been to a hospital recently? The rest TL;DR couldn't get past the audacity of the opening line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) Haven't you been to a hospital recently? The rest TL;DR couldn't get past the audacity of the opening line. I'll take from that inelegant "are you still beating your wife" reply, that my points have been sufficiently well-made that you are stuck for words, then. Edited January 19, 2018 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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