ENG601PM Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 It's certainly more useful than hoping for the worst which seems to be all too common around these parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I doubt that mere 'hoping' has any effect, either! What happens, happens.Said every private company manager, civil service department manager, school headmaster, <...> since the year dot. Not. Gotta love how utterly devoid of basic common sense, some Leavers' "anti-forecast" posts are. I guess none of them have ever been in charge of much more than the kettle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 It's certainly more useful than hoping for the worst which seems to be all too common around these parts. This is what the Dutch, rather poetically, call a dooddoener. A thing said to end a debate. Trust me, I have no desire at all for the British economy to crash like a house of cards, I too am invested in it. The problem is, without a lie or an ounce of ill will, that the UK economy has already been hit. But for some reason people that voted Brexit don't think it has. The key here is - if the paper says the economy grew with 0,75% this year that is good right? But... if it was, surely by now we would have seen an alleviation of funding crises in our healthcare, welfare, education and local governments? As we are not seeing that - how are you marrying things up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENG601PM Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Said every private company manager, civil service department manager, school headmaster, <...> since the year dot. Not. Gotta love how utterly devoid of basic common sense, some Leavers' "anti-forecast" posts are. I guess none of them have ever been in charge of much more than the kettle Well here's an interesting development. Treasury deliberately produced gloomy Brexit forecasts to keep UK in customs union, top minister suggests Treasury officials have developed bleak economic forecasts about Brexit in a bid to try to keep Britain in the Customs Union, ministers have been told. Steve Baker, a Brexit minister, confirmed he had been told that the Treasury had developed an economic model "to show that all options other than staying in the Customs union were bad". He said that the allegations are "quite extraordinary" and that the Government will proceed with "great caution" on the claims because it wants to "uphold and support the impartiality of the civil service" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/02/01/treasury-officials-developed-gloomy-brexit-forecasts-keep-britain/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Well here's an interesting development. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/02/01/treasury-officials-developed-gloomy-brexit-forecasts-keep-britain/ Go on then. Who's the source of the claim and why would they be in a position to make such a claim - do they work for the treasury for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) Well here's an interesting development. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/02/01/treasury-officials-developed-gloomy-brexit-forecasts-keep-britain/ It will be interesting when it's independently verified, by a broadsheet -and not a tabloid- other than the hardliner's habitual mouthpiece. In the meantime, speaking of interesting developments, you might consider how to take this new one of a government minister in exercise (Baker) supporting allegations of an MP (Mogg) against the impartiality of the civil service. (@ altus: the source is Mogg, of course) This is where hardliners start to push dogma beyond influence jostling, towards destabilisation. The noose is tightening around May's neck while she's away Edited February 1, 2018 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 The key here is - if the paper says the economy grew with 0,75% this year that is good right? But... if it was, surely by now we would have seen an alleviation of funding crises in our healthcare, welfare, education and local governments? As we are not seeing that - how are you marrying things up? Bit of a straw man argument there.. The economy grew plenty in the past and yet the above still happened when it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRB Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Is this supposed to be some form of conclusive argument against economic forecasts. We should all know that every comment is going to get the full spin treatment.Thats what politicians do. My own reasoning supports our full and enthusiastic partnership within the EU. May seems to be trying to pacify her Brexit hardliners with her latest views on an instant change of status for EU migrants come 2019. Supposedly this will prevent a further million immigrants to the U.K. This will backfire on the UK as we strive to isolate ourselves from Europe. All so needless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENG601PM Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 It will be interesting when it's independently verified, by a broadsheet -and not a tabloid- other than the hardliner's habitual mouthpiece. In the meantime, speaking of interesting developments, you might consider how to take this new one of a government minister in exercise (Baker) supporting allegations of an MP (Mogg) against the impartiality of the civil service. 1. It was a statement made in Parliament. We both understand the implications of that regardless of who reports it. 2. Baker seems to have been reporting a 3rd party comment that JRM heard of and questioned, not sure if anyone can be sanctioned for that under the circumstances. It was a bit unwise for Baker to follow through as he did but he'd been asked and he answered. and 3. It's turning into a bit of a damp squib already. Seems that Davis counselled Baker against saying it literally before he did say it. What a good job that I don't get overexcited at the latest report of a report about reports. I'm still awaiting anyone's thoughts on why the latest 'leaked' government report should be believed any more than the the previous wrong government reports. Anyone? Hello, anyone? Is it THAT cold in Stockholm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) 1. It was a statement made in Parliament. We both understand the implications of that regardless of who reports it.I did not refer to verifying the statement, but its factuality. Because until that statement is proven, it's just an allegation. I'm quite sure that you got my meaning, and that you understand the difference between an unverified claim and a verified one: the first one is a lie, when it cannot be verified. Would you put staunch Leavers like JRM above lying to further their political aims? Given their form to date (there's ample uncontrovertible evidence about many of their earlier claims), I'm afraid they aren't getting the benefit of doubt. and 3. It's turning into a bit of a damp squib already. Seems that Davis counselled Baker against saying it literally before he did say it.Now that's something we both understand the implications of, regardless of who reports it. Or do you want me to lay it out in plainspeak as above? What a good job that I don't get overexcited at the latest report of a report about reports. You're the poster who introduced that report in the thread in post #6218, so who's overexcited here? I'm still awaiting anyone's thoughts on why the latest 'leaked' government report should be believed any more than the the previous wrong government reports. Anyone? Hello, anyone? Is it THAT cold in Stockholm? The ironing is just so strong in this one! Edited February 2, 2018 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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