The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[ENG601PM]

You've done well to pack so much misunderstanding and mansplaining into one post. You know me well enough by now that if I think something I will jolly well say it. There's no need to invent the wrong narrative with me.

 

And yet STILL nobody can say why this latest report is more believable than previous wrong reports from the same people using the same data.

 

It's -1 in Stockholm today. 6 degrees in Sheffield.

[L00b]

Incidentally, today I came across the EUropean Intellectual Property Office ('EUIPO') Q&A factsheet about Brexit, recently published on 30 January 2018.

 

Without doubt, that's been done in the same manner and spirit as other official EU departments have done since March 2017, namely to cut through the rethoric bullcrap from any side, and to state plainly and clearly to all stakeholders what is really ('really-really') going to happen on 1st April 2019 if there is a 'no deal' exit (intentionally or not, matters not).

 

Those Q&A fully vindicate the point I first raised on this forum on 22 February 2016, and every last point I next raised on this forum on 19 April 2016 (sometimes reiterated since).

 

Namely, in the absence of a negotiated deal keeping the UK in the EEA, all EU trade marks and all EU designs go 'poof' overnight on 29 March 2017, and both UK right owners and UK practitioners lose all their rights of audience at the EUIPO (so shall have to give business to EU27 practitioners, or do business in the EU27 without EU registered IP rights).

 

All wholly unsurprisingly (these being some of the main reason why we're leaving Sheffield and moving to the Continent in the next 2 weeks): no crystal ball was required then, just a plain reading of the black-and-white EU legal texts (referenced in the Q&A pdf), applied straightforwardly to the hypothesis of the UK becoming a 'third country'.

 

If you or your business own EU trade mark(s) and/or EU design(s) and your UK commercial activity hinges on those to any extent, I'd strongly suggest that you get chatting with your legal services provider post-haste.

 

Stockholm that one, ENG

Edited February 2, 2018 by L00b

[ENG601PM]

And another interesting development. One has to wonder what the big powerful EU has to be so worried about, what with the city of Frankfurt quadrupling in population by 2020 and Paris giving free English and French lessons.

 

The EU is threatening sanctions to stop Britain undercutting the continent’s economy after Brexit, including “tax blacklists” and penalties against state-subsidised companies, according to a strategy paper.

 

The measures, outlined in a presentation to EU27 member states last week and published on Thursday, show the bloc wants unprecedented safeguards after the UK leaves to preserve a “level playing field” and counter the “clear risks” of Britain slashing taxes or relaxing regulation.

 

It's gonna be even colder in Stockholm. The prospect of a hard early Brexit is looming.

 

---------- Post added 02-02-2018 at 12:12 ----------

 

If you or your business own EU trade mark(s) and/or EU design(s) and your UK commercial activity hinges on those to any extent, I'd strongly suggest that you get chatting with your legal services provider post-haste.

 

Stockholm that one, ENG

 

How is that more of a problem for UK business than EU27 business? All that lovely continental IP becoming available for UK business to use post Brexit. And with the balance of trade favouring the UK what a bonanza for industry! Couple it with the hard Brexit it came from and undercut, undercut, undercut! Watch out Airbus, BAe Systems will be firing up the Hawker Siddley plant.

 

I know it's your area of expertise, but seriously L00b, please do us all a bit more credit than regurgitating Project Fear. It's just more Stockholm Syndrome.

Edited February 2, 2018 by ENG601PM

[L00b]

How is that more of a problem for UK business than EU27 business? All that lovely continental IP becoming available for UK business to use post Brexit. And with the balance of trade favouring the UK what a bonanza for industry!

And reciprocally, all that EU(formerly UK) IP becoming available for EU27 businesses to use across the UK post Brexit.

 

You're assuming continental rights owners don't have distinct UK rights?

 

A bit naïve, and you might want to check the UKIPO filing stats since June 2016: I'm far from being the only IP practitioner, in the UK and elsewhere (particularly in Ireland, France & Germany), long aware of the issue (months before the referendum) and dispensing problem-solving/commercial-strategic advice

 

I'll not bore you with further specifics, but UK businesses have been woefully slow to take mitigating/remedial action: if there's no deal and the EU(UK) rights go 'poof' indeed, many UK businesses are going to find themselves unable to trade at home without infringing someone (continental) else's UK rights

I know it's your area of expertise, but seriously L00b, please do us all a bit more credit than regurgitating Project Fear. It's just more Stockholm Syndrome.

It's clear as day from the above that you haven't bothered to read the Q&A pdf which I linked. Can't say I'm surprised, but beware that could open you to a charge of ignorance.

 

There's not one iota of 'Project Fear' in the factual information from the horse's mouth: it's simply the straightforward application of EU law to a set of circumstances.

 

I know your confirmation bias would like it to be different, but it's the exact same situation for everything and anything else (air traffic, medicines <etc.>) regulated at source by supra-national EU law: whilever the UK is an EU Member State, it lies within the jurisdiction of that EU law and enjoys all rights and privileges under it. Such as easily obtaining pan-European IP rights for, virtually, pennies.

 

Third party countries like China, the US, India, Australia <etc.> don't, and can't: US, Chinese, Indian <etc.> applicants must be represented by an EU representative. FTA with the EU or not (just ask the Canadians and Koreans if you won't take my word for it...or read the Q&A pdf, it's plain enough).

 

Brexit doesn't change EU law one bit in that respect.

 

So when the UK ceases to be a Member State and joins the cohort of third party countries, so the UK exits the jurisdiction of that EU law and ceases to enjoy all rights and privileges under it. Such as easily obtaining pan-European IP rights for, virtually, pennies (it'll still be pennies for their EU27 competitors though ).

 

One has to wonder what the big powerful EU has to be so worried about, what with the city of Frankfurt quadrupling in population by 2020 and Paris giving free English and French lessons.

Sod all to do with Brexit or elasticity of immigration, and all to do with local integration policies: every village, town and city in Luxembourg provides free lessons -however many you'd want- in Luxembourgish to any new resident, and that's been the case for donkey's years. Edited February 2, 2018 by L00b

[ENG601PM]

You're assuming continental rights owners don't have distinct UK rights?

 

A bit naïve...

 

Oh come on L00b, you're losing the plot now. You actually really think I "assume" that? No,I don't think you're that naive. Losing the argument maybe, but not that naive. Let's keep this grown up shall we?

[L00b]

Oh come on L00b, you're losing the plot now. You actually really think I "assume" that? No,I don't think you're that naive. Losing the argument maybe, but not that naive. Let's keep this grown up shall we?

How am I 'losing the plot', when you failed to consider the obvious flipside to your own argument in the first place?

[ENG601PM]

How am I 'losing the plot', when you failed to consider the obvious flipside to your own argument in the first place?

 

Perhaps you didn't notice my tongue in cheek language but it was obvious employment of a rhetorical device rather than literal magniloquence.

 

The power of ze English. I've had to do it twice, don't make me do it a third time.

[L00b]

Perhaps you didn't notice my tongue in cheek language but it was obvious employment of a rhetorical device rather than literal magniloquence.

Now, who exactly do you think you're kidding with that one, beside yourself?

The power of ze English. I've had to do it twice, don't make me do it a third time.

LOL!

 

I'm not letting you off that one. Wriggle, wriggle, little worm.

[ENG601PM]

Now, who exactly do you think you're kidding with that one, beside yourself?

Third time L00b, go back, empty your head of your personal preconceptions and prejudice, have another read, think about the words and it is perfectly obvious. That said, I'm not 100% sure if English is your first language so you might not quite get the flourishes and layers.

 

The point which should should not need explaining is that you posted a Stockholm Syndromesque flagellation that the UK had an IP problem. I agree, and simply reminded you that the EU27 also have an IP problem, and a bigger one at that.

 

It's not going to happen though. There will be no IP problem. Your Luxemburg move is no more about that, than an old fashioned language oriented positioning for market share without bothering to adapt to a new UK environment... and don't try to kid us otherwise.

 

This really is O Level standard debate, and not even a pass at that. Put some effort in man, summon up the spirits of Cicero and Euripides, have a bit of fun with the language, broaden your horizons beyond the self imposed confines, have a bit of respect for those who confer it on you, and basically just lighten up.

[RJRB]

I think that you two should really meet up ,together with your i pads for ready reference,and stop trying to outdo each other with your breadth of knowledge.

I hope that our negotiators and the Civil servants are as clued up.

Just go with your gut instinct.

Will we be any better off outside the EU.

I don’t see why we should be.