The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[chalga]

I dealt with that pages and pages back. I literally can't be bothered to find it but you are welcome to try.

 

You can be first to answer my question if you're quick. Go on, beat Fogey to it. Has Sheffield done better or worse since Britain joined the EEC in 1973.

 

This is a dead loss, I think we'll go back to #despitebrexit

 

Not only Sheffield,but the whole of the UK,read the article.

[ENG601PM]

#despitebrexit South Yorkshire's steel furnace fires up again!

 

Prince Charles has reignited an electric arc furnace two and a half years after it was mothballed during the steel crisis.

 

The Prince of Wales officially restarted the equipment during a visit to Liberty Steel in Rotherham.

 

The 800,000-tonne-a-year furnace turns scrap metal into specialised steels.

 

Liberty bought the plant in 2017 as part of a £100m buyout of Tata Steel's speciality steels division.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-43086314

[I1L2T3]

I think that Sheffield has probably done worse since 1973.

 

Do you not agree with that simple statement without resorting to the conjecture needed to reframe the argument to suit your bias?

 

No? OK then, here's some opinion that's both objective and subjective but certainly not conjecture. Sheffield has become a low rent, low income town that's way behind the other cities in the Core Cities group, with a GVA half that of Leeds which had a similar industrial base. The city centre has become run down and swathes are derelict with a 30 year timeline of more retailers and business leaving the city than setting up. The entrepreneur base is so low that it hardly registers and is acknowledged as a problem with low start up numbers and business growth that is more like decline. Population numbers have stagnated while other cities have grown. The city relies far too heavily on the revenue generated by the two universities.

 

Now for some conjecture. Sheffield is on life support provided by the two universities. If UK government policy changes to encourage large numbers of students to stay at home the population will decline further, GVA will decline drastically, business and jobs will be decimated, and the city centre will look like Rotherham.

 

So I'll ask the very simple question yet again, HAS Sheffield done better or worse since Britain joined the EEC in 1973.

 

It's not a trick question. Have a go.

 

The question is only relevant if you blame the EU for All or most of the bad things that have happened to Sheffield since 1973.

 

If you lived here you’d know that our own council has visited more carnage on us than even the most evil bogeyman in Brussels could dream up.

 

It’s a pointless question, and it does nothing to address the real issue: will Sheffield be better off after we leave?

 

---------- Post added 19-02-2018 at 14:17 ----------

 

I'm waiting for the first person to honestly answer my question instead of asking me one back.

 

Your go. Be the first.

 

It’s a stupid question.

 

---------- Post added 19-02-2018 at 14:19 ----------

 

I dealt with that pages and pages back. I literally can't be bothered to find it but you are welcome to try.

 

You can be first to answer my question if you're quick. Go on, beat Fogey to it. Has Sheffield done better or worse since Britain joined the EEC in 1973.

 

This is a dead loss, I think we'll go back to #despitebrexit

 

You’ve dealt with nothing.

 

Despite not even living here you’ve decided that Sheffield is worse off and that EU membership is to blame.

[melthebell]

I I literally can't be bothered

 

we can wish

[truman]

#despitebrexit South Yorkshire's steel furnace fires up again!

 

Prince Charles has reignited an electric arc furnace two and a half years after it was mothballed during the steel crisis.

 

The Prince of Wales officially restarted the equipment during a visit to Liberty Steel in Rotherham.

 

The 800,000-tonne-a-year furnace turns scrap metal into specialised steels.

 

Liberty bought the plant in 2017 as part of a £100m buyout of Tata Steel's speciality steels division.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-43086314

 

You may not have noticed but we haven't left yet..

[melthebell]

You may not have noticed but we haven't left yet..

funnily enough that doesnt seem to bother him and his dribble

[ENG601PM]

The question is only relevant if you blame the EU for All or most of the bad things that have happened to Sheffield since 1973.

 

If you lived here you’d know that our own council has visited more carnage on us than even the most evil bogeyman in Brussels could dream up.

 

It’s a pointless question, and it does nothing to address the real issue: will Sheffield be better off after we leave?

OK, at least you've tried, even if you've not succeeded so let's work with the poor material we've got.

 

I don't "blame the EU for All or most of the bad things that have happened to Sheffield since 1973"

 

The incredibly simple question is formed around whether being in the EU has created the best general environment for the city that I live in, but first the question needs acknowledging in itself. I don't believe that Sheffield has prospered since 1973. Its a shadow of what it was. It's a shadow of what other places have become.

 

You may be right about the council, but after 45 years it is impossible to ignore the effect of the EU on the city. (You and I haven't, but let's not get start talking about Objective 1 money recycled back to the UK after the EU takes it's slice before deigning to pour grace and favour on the worst of the worst). Clearly the macro environment hasn't been good for Sheffield in all sorts of ways and I've dropped the clues about coal and steel for nobody to understand the relevance.

 

I don't think that it is an especially difficult question really, unless you (not personally) find yourself so wedded to the EU ideology for whatever reason feels comfortable.

 

So I'm back full circle with the bare fact that Brexit is happening and we have to look to the future in different ways with different people, places, markets, and opportunities.

 

I'm afraid that worrying about the past is pointless when there are new relationships to be forged by a strong and influential nation with a world that is changing fast and leaving the EU flat footed as it wrestles with problems that are rooted in the 19th century.

 

So, lay on, Macduff, and be damned him that first cries "Hold, enough".

 

We might even get a council we deserve

[melthebell]

OK, at least you've tried, even if you've not succeeded so let's work with the poor material we've got.

 

I don't "blame the EU for All or most of the bad things that have happened to Sheffield since 1973"

 

The incredibly simple question is formed around whether being in the EU has created the best general environment for the city that I live in, but first the question needs acknowledging in itself. I don't believe that Sheffield has prospered since 1973. Its a shadow of what it was. It's a shadow of what other places have become.

 

You may be right about the council, but after 45 years it is impossible to ignore the effect of the EU on the city. (You and I haven't, but let's not get start talking about Objective 1 money recycled back to the UK after the EU takes it's slice before deigning to pour grace and favour on the worst of the worst). Clearly the macro environment hasn't been good for Sheffield in all sorts of ways and I've dropped the clues about coal and steel for nobody to understand the relevance.

 

I don't think that it is an especially difficult question really, unless you (not personally) find yourself so wedded to the EU ideology for whatever reason feels comfortable.

 

So I'm back full circle with the bare fact that Brexit is happening and we have to look to the future in different ways with different people, places, markets, and opportunities.

 

I'm afraid that worrying about the past is pointless when there are new relationships to be forged by a strong and influential nation with a world that is changing fast and leaving the EU flat footed as it wrestles with problems that are rooted in the 19th century.

 

So, lay on, Macduff, and be damned him that first cries "Hold, enough".

 

We might even get a council we deserve

 

OR

 

have northern cities prospered at all during the EUs reign? OR the various UK governments, the answer would be, the south gets most of any money

[chalga]

Figure 2.2 ranks our 63 cities according to their average annual growth rates of output

(real gross value added) over the entire 1981-2011 period, and also shows their

corresponding average annual growth rates of total employment. The striking feature is

just how far British cities have varied in economic performance over the past thirty years

or so. At one end of the spectrum are the fastest growing cities of Milton Keynes,

Swindon, Telford, Crawley, Reading, Peterborough, Bournemouth, Warrington and

Northampton, all with an average annual growth rate of output of 2.9 percent or more.

Significantly, most of these are centres that were designated as new, expanded of

overspill towns, mainly in the late-1960s or 1970s, and which have benefited from explicit

growth and development strategies, implemented by dedicated institutional bodies (both

central and local). These cities exemplify what can be achieved by purposive intervention

involving the spatially integrated provision of housing, infrastructure and sites and

premises for industry and other activities. At the other end of the distribution are

Liverpool, Hull, Birkenhead, Grimsby, Dundee, Middlesborough, Wakefield, Stoke,

Blackpool, Wigan, Sheffield and Doncaster all of which grew at or around only half that

rate (1.45 percent per annum). These are all old industrial or service centres that in the

beginning of our study period had ageing infrastructures and housing stocks. Those cities

that have grown fastest in terms of output have tended to be those that have also seen

the fastest growth in jobs over the three decade period, and conversely those that have

registered the slowest rates of economic growth have seen the smallest increases in

their employment base (Figure 2.3). Successful cities, in other words, are those that not

only have a higher rate of wealth creation, but also of job creation. Cities that lag in

wealth creation (output growth) tend also to create fewer jobs.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/358326/14-803-evolving-economic-performance-of-cities.pdf

 

There you go,page 17 of this report is what you need,Sheffield registers a 1.45 per cent annual growth since 1981.

Edited February 19, 2018 by chalga

[I1L2T3]

OK, at least you've tried, even if you've not succeeded so let's work with the poor material we've got.

 

I don't "blame the EU for All or most of the bad things that have happened to Sheffield since 1973"

 

The incredibly simple question is formed around whether being in the EU has created the best general environment for the city that I live in, but first the question needs acknowledging in itself. I don't believe that Sheffield has prospered since 1973. Its a shadow of what it was. It's a shadow of what other places have become.

 

You may be right about the council, but after 45 years it is impossible to ignore the effect of the EU on the city. (You and I haven't, but let's not get start talking about Objective 1 money recycled back to the UK after the EU takes it's slice before deigning to pour grace and favour on the worst of the worst). Clearly the macro environment hasn't been good for Sheffield in all sorts of ways and I've dropped the clues about coal and steel for nobody to understand the relevance.

 

I don't think that it is an especially difficult question really, unless you (not personally) find yourself so wedded to the EU ideology for whatever reason feels comfortable.

 

So I'm back full circle with the bare fact that Brexit is happening and we have to look to the future in different ways with different people, places, markets, and opportunities.

 

I'm afraid that worrying about the past is pointless when there are new relationships to be forged by a strong and influential nation with a world that is changing fast and leaving the EU flat footed as it wrestles with problems that are rooted in the 19th century.

 

So, lay on, Macduff, and be damned him that first cries "Hold, enough".

 

We might even get a council we deserve

 

If worrying about the past is pointless why are you asking stupid questions about it.

 

I think we both agree that what happens next is most important.

Edited February 19, 2018 by I1L2T3