Fogey Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Remainders are inadvertently making hard brexit more likely= https://semipartisansam.com/2016/12/10/hysterical-remainers-are-inadvertently-making-hard-brexit-more-likely/ Here, let me just copy and paste that websites own tag line under that particular websites heading. "A SEMI-BIASED COMMENTARY ON BRITISH AND AMERICAN POLITICS, CULTURE AND CURRENT AFFAIRS" Now let me just extract the most pertinent word in that tag line, - "BIASED". Now have a go at figuring out why you should approach the information on such a website with caution. ---------- Post added 01-03-2018 at 08:23 ---------- This is getting surreal. We need ENG back with his answers to the real questions Maybe he went away to have a furious rethink after I pointed out that he admitted Brexit was based on a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRB Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Err... You don't think that asking the electorate to decide on a major issue with a national vote is a compelling case for change? Do you feel the same way about general elections? Do you support democracy or fear it? ---------- Post added 01-03-2018 at 08:09 ---------- "I know of no precedent for any Government enacting a policy that will make both our country and our people poorer." John Major, speaking about Brexit. But he lied. For his government enacted a policy for Britain to join the Exchange Rate Mechanism and it was pursued, disastrously and extremely expensively, because of a Europhile dogmatic attachment to the EU. John Major is responsible for Black Wednesday. He made the country and the people poorer - because the EU demanded it. The ERM proved to be a big mistake so we then left it. Day by day the nitty gritty of Brexit is also becoming much more apparent to those who voted in the referendum,and whilst the ardent Brexiters become more strident ,there are many others who may now regret the new reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Err... You don't think that asking the electorate to decide on a major issue with a national vote is a compelling case for change? Do you feel the same way about general elections? Do you support democracy or fear it? ---------- Post added 01-03-2018 at 08:09 ---------- "I know of no precedent for any Government enacting a policy that will make both our country and our people poorer." John Major, speaking about Brexit. But he lied. For his government enacted a policy for Britain to join the Exchange Rate Mechanism and it was pursued, disastrously and extremely expensively, because of a Europhile dogmatic attachment to the EU. John Major is responsible for Black Wednesday. He made the country and the people poorer - because the EU demanded it. No I don’t think it is compelling. The margin was tight and if the referendum was repeated the result could be very different. To top it off when May sought a mandate at the GE for her plans she didn’t get it. Her chances of improving her parliamentary position if another GE was held tomorrow would be tiny. To say that an advisory referendum result that was effectively just a snapshot is forever binding is profoundly undemocratic. May knows this which is why she continually tries to thwart parliamentary scrutiny of her plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 To say that an advisory referendum result that was effectively just a snapshot is forever binding is profoundly undemocratic. The biased pro EU government leaflet sent to all homes clearly stated "This is your chance to decide your own future and the future of the United Kingdom. It is important that you vote." It also stated "A vote to leave could mean a decade or more of uncertainty" and later stated "This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide." As pointed out over 12 million didn't vote. Considering the government made it very plain before the referendum and maintained from the outset that they would carry out the majority decision makes that advisory bit mute. On advise from parliament they also changed the wording of the questions. Advise that was amended, voted on and passed by parliament, and later on carried through is democracy. In essence it was wholly democratic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) Fair play to John Major. He may be a Tory but he is one of the few public figures in the last 18 months to say that the majority of people in the UK did NOT vote for Brexit! "The country voted for Brexit!!!" No we didn't! He's just another politician who doesn't respect the democratic wishes of the people who voted to leave the EU. He isn't unbiased, he is the Prime Minister who called members of his own cabinet '<removed>' because they didn't share is own support for the Maastricht Treaty. Edited March 1, 2018 by nikki-red masked swearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) The biased pro EU government leaflet sent to all homes clearly stated "This is your chance to decide your own future and the future of the United Kingdom. It is important that you vote." It also stated "A vote to leave could mean a decade or more of uncertainty" and later stated "This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide." As pointed out over 12 million didn't vote. Considering the government made it very plain before the referendum and maintained from the outset that they would carry out the majority decision makes that advisory bit mute. On advise from parliament they also changed the wording of the questions. Advise that was amended, voted on and passed by parliament, and later on carried through is democracy. In essence it was wholly democratic It didn’t matter what the government said. It was advisory. There was no legal compulsion to carry it out. Quote the whole post in future, as per the rules. ---------- Post added 01-03-2018 at 15:02 ---------- He's just another politician who doesn't respect the democratic wishes of the people who voted to leave the EU. He isn't unbiased, he is the Prime Minister who called members of his own cabinet '<removed>' because they didn't share is own support for the Maastricht Treaty. He does respect the democratic wishes of the people which is why he has intervened. The idea that a (almost) two year old referendum still represents the will of the people is absurd, and profoundly undemocratic. Especially so given May’s lack of mandate, and clear evidence that the Brexit agenda is being driven forward by a cabal of only 60-70 hard right Tory MPs who May is afraid to take on for fear of not being able to manage her party. This is an undemocratic mess created in the Tory party. Edited March 1, 2018 by nikki-red masked swearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdoctor Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 He does respect the democratic wishes of the people which is why he has intervened. The idea that a (almost) two year old referendum still represents the will of the people is absurd, and profoundly undemocratic. Especially so given May’s lack of mandate, and clear evidence that the Brexit agenda is being driven forward by a cabal of only 60-70 hard right Tory MPs who May is afraid to take on for fear of not being able to manage her party. This is an undemocratic mess created in the Tory party. You are spouting nonsense. The Tory MPs you mention are friends of the democratic people who voted in the EU referendum and are only seeking to maintain and carry out democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 It didn’t matter what the government said. It was advisory. There was no legal compulsion to carry it out. Quote the whole post in future, as per the rules. ---------- Post added 01-03-2018 at 15:02 ---------- He does respect the democratic wishes of the people which is why he has intervened. The idea that a (almost) two year old referendum still represents the will of the people is absurd, and profoundly undemocratic. Especially so given May’s lack of mandate, and clear evidence that the Brexit agenda is being driven forward by a cabal of only 60-70 hard right Tory MPs who May is afraid to take on for fear of not being able to manage her party. This is an undemocratic mess created in the Tory party. You are a loser get over it, "This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide." The majority of voters decided to leave. If you don't like it you're free to go to the EU, why haven't you? https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517014/EU_referendum_leaflet_large_print.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 It didn’t matter what the government said. It was advisory. There was no legal compulsion to carry it out. I agree there was no legal compulsion to carry it out. But.. the leaflet that the government produced stated that they would carry it out and parliament subsequently accepted it and also passed the A50 act. Sorry you didn't like the fact it was carried out and approved by parliament but that is democracy. Quote the whole post in future, as per the rules. The rules do not state that I have to quote the whole post only that its not acceptable (for copyright reasons) to amend a post, it is perfectly acceptable to abridge a post. In any case it has never stopped you in the past from doing the same. But does the bit by you, which I didn't include, alter what I have written as all you are saying by it is "if" and having a guessing game on what May happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Well here's an interesting poll from Northern Ireland on the subject of brexit. Question 5 asks; if there was a border poll in the event of a hard brexit would they rather remain in the EU by joining with the Irish Republic or leave the EU by staying part of the UK? 47.9% said they'd vote to join the Irish Republic 45.4% said they'd vote to stay in the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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