The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[chalga]

That also goes both ways, by the same token there is no such thing as one single type of leaver as some on her seem to suggest.

 

---------- Post added 24-03-2018 at 14:16 ----------

 

 

The fact that the EU then use those poorer countries for cheap labour, so its almost a bribe.

 

No,the EU doesn't use them,people move to other countries under their own free will,ability,availability of jobs,difference in wages,and if businesses want them.

[apelike]

We have been through this before. Have a look at the EU money that was given to the Cornwall for development over the last decade and a half and compare it to what our government gave. You're telling me that Cornwall will get same level of continued funding for development once we have left?

 

Strange thing is that even knowing that they still voted in the majority to leave.

 

---------- Post added 24-03-2018 at 14:23 ----------

 

No,the EU doesn't use them,people move to other countries under their own free will,ability,availability of jobs,difference in wages,and if businesses want them.

 

I though it was suggested here before that the EU was a bloc? They are the ones that invite countries to join and also set the rules. Now look at the main countries that have recently joined and see where the cheap labour used throughout the EU comes from. Which then also begs the question.. what happens when those countries start to prosper and it is no longer necessary to seek work elsewhere?

[chalga]

Strange thing is that even knowing that they still voted in the majority to leave.

 

---------- Post added 24-03-2018 at 14:23 ----------

 

 

I though it was suggested here before that the EU was a bloc? They are the ones that invite countries to join and also set the rules. Now look at the main countries that have recently joined and see where the cheap labour used throughout the EU comes from. Which then also begs the question.. what happens when those countries start to prosper and it is no longer necessary to seek work elsewhere?

 

The EU is a bloc and is inclusive,it's pretty obvious that the later EU entries from former eastern bloc countries will be poorer,the whole object of this is to make Europe more inclusive and a better place to live,not with huge differences in countries side by side,people from these countries will want to work for higher wages,quite obviously,and it works on the Tory philosophy of a rising tide floats all boats.

Countries will always have people who want to move from one to another,and not only from a poor one to a rich one,and there will always be some countries that prosper more than others,there never will be a level playing field,so there will always be the flow of people from one to another,plus,technology will continue to take jobs from people as it improves and machines take over.

[apelike]

chalga.. not going to quote the whole post but in a sense I agree with some of that. The problem at the moment is that the poorer countries are being used for cheap labour as the majority of the young unemployed move about the EU for work. There will still be a flow but as stated at some time in the future people will not need in mass to move to another country for work. In fact in some countries where this is happening now such as Poland a lot of their towns are now almost ghost towns as many of the young have moved away causing problems for the elderly. That then causes greater problems in those countries trying to prosper from joining the EU and puts more financial pressure on the EU to help. It all a bit of a swings and roundabouts situation.

[chalga]

chalga.. not going to quote the whole post but in a sense I agree with some of that. The problem at the moment is that the poorer countries are being used for cheap labour as the majority of the young unemployed move about the EU for work. There will still be a flow but as stated at some time in the future people will not need in mass to move to another country for work. In fact in some countries where this is happening now such as Poland a lot of their towns are now almost ghost towns as many of the young have moved away causing problems for the elderly. That then causes greater problems in those countries trying to prosper from joining the EU and puts more financial pressure on the EU to help. It all a bit of a swings and roundabouts situation.

 

Well when there is no need for people in Poland to move,they will stay there and there won't be ghost towns.Plenty of people are content to work abroad,make their money and move back,then set up their own businesses in their own countries,plus injecting capital into their own regions.

It's up to individual countries to make the EU work for them,the EU only sets up the conditions to make it possible, individual countries,regions and business in those places need to come up with their own solutions to solve their own problems,the EU isn't a be all and end all for them,they have to play their part.

[Top Cats Hat]

That then causes greater problems in those countries trying to prosper from joining the EU and puts more financial pressure on the EU to help. It all a bit of a swings and roundabouts situation.

 

My understanding is that many Poles are returning to Poland both because the Polish economy is improving and the post-referendum slump in sterling means that given a choice, people would rather earn Euros.

 

And yes, it is swings and roundabouts with the regional inequalities eventually being eroded. The real irony is that we could end up being in a similar situation to pre-EU Ireland and Portugal with a junk economy but unlike Poland and Romania, we will have no longer have the right to work and travel within the EU.

 

I don't think anybody, including many remainers realise how badly this whole experiment could end. The further irony is that many of the older generation who were partially responsible for the vote to leave will no longer be around to see the results of their foolishness!

[Guest]

No,the EU doesn't use them,people move to other countries under their own free will,ability,availability of jobs,difference in wages,and if businesses want them.

 

Of course jobs in this country were never exclusively advertised in foreign countries, the Labour party never sent out search parties actively encouraging people to come and work in this country, no, all those east Europeans separately, individually and independently came to make a new life for themselves and all just by coincidence found themselves all working in the same places on the same factory floors etc,

 

"ooo its a small world, fancy seeing you here" they must have said to each other. :roll:

[chalga]

Of course jobs in this country were never exclusively advertised in foreign countries, the Labour party never sent out search parties actively encouraging people to come and work in this country, no, all those east Europeans separately, individually and independently came to make a new life for themselves and all just by coincidence found themselves all working in the same places on the same factory floors etc,

 

"ooo its a small world, fancy seeing you here" they must have said to each other. :roll:

 

Not sure what point you are trying to make,but it seems to be that British Business likes foreign workers,but that 'problem' is now solved,how you cope with the future out of the EU and under an ageing deomograhic and workforce when the UK is still creating jobs under the EU regime is up to you,maybe you can tell us all.

[apelike]

Well when there is no need for people in Poland to move,they will stay there and there won't be ghost towns.

 

Although Poland was just one example what happens if others are in the same position, who will then pick the fruit and veg in Spain for instance? If its not done through cheap labour, and as many remains keep pointing out about the situation in the UK, then those cheap food prices will no longer be cheap. (not just fruit and veg though)

 

Plenty of people are content to work abroad,make their money and move back,then set up their own businesses in their own countries,plus injecting capital into their own regions.

 

But how many out of the masses that have moved from their own country have done that. If it was true then again where will the cheap labour come from?

 

It's up to individual countries to make the EU work for them,the EU only sets up the conditions to make it possible, individual countries,regions and business in those places need to come up with their own solutions to solve their own problems,the EU isn't a be all and end all for them,they have to play their part.

 

But if masses of people have moved elsewhere for work how can those countries make the EU work for them? Not forgetting that the EU are also having problems with their budget and are asking members to pay more which some have already rejected which means in the future there will be less money in the pot to share.

 

---------- Post added 24-03-2018 at 16:33 ----------

 

My understanding is that many Poles are returning to Poland both because the Polish economy is improving and the post-referendum slump in sterling means that given a choice, people would rather earn Euros.

 

Just because they are moving out from the UK does not mean they are returning to their home country as that is not where the current work is.

 

And yes, it is swings and roundabouts with the regional inequalities eventually being eroded. The real irony is that we could end up being in a similar situation to pre-EU Ireland and Portugal with a junk economy but unlike Poland and Romania, we will have no longer have the right to work and travel within the EU.

 

So you think we will be banned from travel and work!

 

I don't think anybody, including many remainers realise how badly this whole experiment could end. The further irony is that many of the older generation who were partially responsible for the vote to leave will no longer be around to see the results of their foolishness!

 

I have bolded the word could above as its important. But.. it could also be said that sadly many of the older generation may not be around to see leaving a success. What the EU are worried about is it may actually be a success which could encourage other members to "take the money and run" eventually.

Edited March 24, 2018 by apelike

[chalga]

Although Poland was just one example what happens if others are in the same position, who will then pick the fruit and veg in Spain for instance? If its not done through cheap labour, and as many remains keep pointing out about the situation in the UK, then those cheap food prices will no longer be cheap. (not just fruit and veg though)

 

 

 

But how many out of the masses that have moved from their own country have done that. If it was true then again where will the cheap labour come from?

 

 

 

But if masses of people have moved elsewhere for work how can those countries make the EU work for them? Not forgetting that the EU are also having problems with their budget and are asking members to pay more which some have already rejected.

 

All the people who don't come to the UK because they've been stopped will still have the chance to go to Spain and pick fruit and veg.

Germany are already investing in non EU migrants and refugees to solve their ageing demographic problem,as well as still taking in migrants from other EU countries.

It's up to those countries and regions in the EU to be more creative and stop looking to the EU as the be all and end all to any problem they have,plenty of people from Eastern Europe are making money in richer countries and going back,then starting their own business,employing people and investing in local economy,plus plenty of big business,especially hyper and supermarkets from western Europe continue to open branches in Eastern Europe,so employing more people,and it's up to regions and countries to make their areas more business friendly to attract the companies who are going to provide the money,jobs and investment.