ricgem2002 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I can’t read it - it’s behind a paywall But.....answer my question please. Is it the same WSJ owned by Fox (I.e. by Murdoch)? i googled your question and it appears so:roll: care to expand ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litotes Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 But yet you and others can post Negative spin propaganda Isn't that because we are seeing the negative effects of Brexit without any positive ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catpus Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 this would have happened regardless, this was not the EU. the world was changing, china and the other upcoming countries were industrialising at a rapid pace and out competing the uk, not just because of wage differentials but also because they were embracing new technology and new ways of working. By and large, Britain stopped investing in new plant at the end of the Victorian times for all sorts of reasons, Imperial hubris, intransigent unions, risk aversion of the money lenders. We have a similar situation now, thatcher and time took care of the first two of my reasons but the last one is still an issue. the press is full of stories with the general thrust of we create great things here but cant build them here because the inventors cant get funding. previous governments could have done something, they didn't because they believed the "markets would provide the best solution" and they provided what we have now. previous governments could have given the markets some direction and moral focus which might have led to a better situation than we had now but they didn't so the markets followed the money and we have what we have now. the EU put a floor under workers rights and conditions, it funded schemes to regenerate the old industrial areas. previous governments could have used some of that money, and their own, to drive a massive reskilling, training and education program but they didn't. they left it to the market and by and large the market provided low skill jobs and provided as little training as possible. if only that were true, there is no particular reason why, post brexit, we can't have self sufficient industries, or even pre brexit with a bit of care, all it needs is government will. we have as much Sovereignty as we ever had. it's such a vague word and without knowing exactly what you mean then I'll assume you are pining over some nostalgic 50s-70s fantasy. Prior to the 1950s we had an empire, from then to the 70s our former colonies were finding their feet in the new world. If you want the fantasy sovereignty back then we retake the empire which probably wont be as easy this time round, and walk away from every international commitment, treaty and organisation. the last bit applies even if we don't try and retake the empire, each organisation, treaty and commitment gives away some soveriegnty. we used cheap fruit picking labour from the EU, there are two specific issues here one is the government is dragging its feet on the cheap eu fruit pickers replacement scheme and most foreigners think we hate them so they dont want to come. we're at nearly full employment, and fruit picking is not an appealing job when even slightly better ones are available. Offering higher wages will just drive up prices and you only have to read here to see how people howl if they find anything which costs more than 20p. i remember the pre-single market days, there wasn't much and it was expensive. we're going to find out in 12 months, scary eh! What a fantastic change to get an intelligent, well considered response. Thank You. As you say, things would have changed anyway because the world was changing rapidly. And I did mean to say that I knew our Steel industry was sold out to China because my Brother in Law began importing steel from China at a better price than British? Banks stopped investing in Britain because they could get a better return elsewhere, especially countries in the pipeline for takeover... And the only reason there is no 'building' here is because of PFI and their extortionate rates - Banks again? The collapse was nothing to do with Unions imo. Proposals were set before them that were unworkable unless they stabbed 75% of the workforce in the back. That was an engineered situation designed to take attention from the fact that The Banks and vampire investors were taking their trade somewhere more lucrative. Yes the EU did 'put a floor under worker's rights and conditions' but only after the horse had bolted and the stable door was firmly shut so they couldn't return? 'Leaving it to the market' - isn't that another way of saying 'See if we can get it somewhere cheaper?' When I said I want Sovereignty I didn't mean in the Empire meaning which was evil imo. But that we should e able to self determine and make our own laws. And I was only a babe in the 50's in both senses of the word. lol And I don't recall having any problem getting fruit and veg. Although some were seasonal. At least there were no mountains of stuff thrown away? But we did have mountains of this that and the other when we joined the EU. I was a Community Worker during that time and had to oversee the disposal of the butter to those on benefits. As you say we will see in 12 months. Though I see the Banks are already calling in the loans and bankrupting everyone in preparation...... asset stripping has been par for the course and the public be damned. So it has already begun. Time to learn to bake again, eh? I'm going to watch Homeland at nine, and get my weekly predictive programming fix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackey lad Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Isn't that because we are seeing the negative effects of Brexit without any positive ones? You only see what you want to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I'm going to watch Homeland at nine, and get my weekly predictive programming fix? Now what was it Saul Berenson said about the Russians and Brexit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litotes Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 You only see what you want to So show me some positives about the decision to leave Europe - actual facts, not predictions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Boot Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 again, we havent actually left yet, there is no brexit yet, we havent even done much in the negotiations yet, but carry on with the positive spin propaganda Anything goes wrong with the economy - its due to Brexit. Anything goes right with the economy - Brexit hasn't happened yet. (Taken from 'EU worship for Dummies'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackey lad Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 So show me some positives about the decision to leave Europe - actual facts, not predictions... We wont be ruled by European ( in some cases unelected ) overlords . I will leave all the rest up to you seeing as you are the foremost expert on here on all things Europe , I would bet about 95% of your posts on here are about brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 We wont be ruled by European ( in some cases unelected ) overlords . oh come on, some proper "facts" what will happen to jobs or the economy, otherwise you just sound like one of the others who dont care a jot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Interesting piece on Channel Four News this evening. It featured a Leave campaign worker who has whistle blown the campaign to the electoral commission for 'processing' a donation of £650,000 directly to SCL (the parent company of Cambridge Analytica) to avoid it being counted as part of their spend on the campaign. This money was used as part of the digital campaign which targetted political adverts and 'information' directly at the social media of people thought more likely to vote leave. And before all the Brextremists on here start screaming and shouting about how they had made up their own minds and would never been conned like that, remember that this £650,000 was only of a fraction of the millions spent to get voters to vote Leave here and for Trump in the US. In the immortal words of John Lydon "Ever get the feeling .......?" Wasn't there a report a bit back about remoan getting 160 million euros funding from the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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