The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[I1L2T3]

Can see into the future can you? Ireland will get the arse end,

 

and a big bill from the EU.

 

No, it's us that gets the big bill.

 

Ireland gets to land a whole load of investment and relocated companies.

[Hairyloon]

Unfortunately he seems to create his own view of someone's thinking and then seek to destroy it...

 

Does he?

It seems to me he is doing his best with the available information, but the thinking destroys itself through being inconsistent, either with itself or with reality...

[retep]

No, I can see the present. Even if Brexit never happens, London is going to lose business to Dublin and other EU financial centres.

 

Some banks will be moving some operations, how does that equate to the UK losing business?

Bit like saying Tesco is moving some of it's business to smaller outlets.

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2017 at 22:48 ----------

 

No, it's us that gets the big bill.

 

Ireland gets to land a whole load of investment and relocated companies.

 

 

And a share of the hole that the UK leaves behind, and the loss of the rest of their fishing fleet,

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/britain/ireland-is-very-vulnerable-the-five-things-you-need-to-know-as-the-uk-backs-out-of-the-eu-fishing-deal-35888364.html

[L00b]

I don't have a problem with anyone.

I understand everything you have said. What you conveniently left out of your post is that the UK does not have the right to decide all of the people who are allowed to enter and reside in the U.K.

That was not left out, it is your own argument, and so was a given

 

What I posted, simply highlighted the existing prerogatives of the UK within the EU insofar as immigration is concerned, given the context of your earlier posts, to try and understand your motives (since you're not explaining why you have a problem with EU immigrants' right of establishment in the UK, but just broad-brushing and misrepresenting the factuality of UK immigration law).

That's simply all I said I wanted. This doesn't mean I have a problem with any particular group or type of person. I want the UK to have that right because I believe in national self-determism

But you haven't explained why.

You seem to have some sort of problem in seizing on anyone who disagrees with you and trying to mercilessley grind them into the ground.

I enjoy vigorous debate. This is one of the places for it.

 

You?

[TheNugget]

That was not left out, it is your own argument, and so was a given

 

What I posted, simply highlighted the existing prerogatives of the UK within the EU insofar as immigration is concerned, given the context of your earlier posts, to try and understand your motives (since you're not explaining why you have a problem with EU immigrants' right of establishment in the UK, but just broad-brushing and misrepresenting the factuality of UK immigration law).

But you haven't explained why.

 

Sure I did - I said - "we decide who comes into the country based on the skills and expertise we need at any given point. I'm Pro- immigration, just not pro- uncontrolled immigration. "

[Hairyloon]

Sure I did - I said - "we decide who comes into the country based on the skills and expertise we need at any given point. I'm Pro- immigration, just not pro- uncontrolled immigration. "

 

The EU rules only oblige us to let EU citizens settle here if they have skills or expertise that we need.

The lack of control of immigration is almost entirely due to the incompetence of the Home Secretary... at least up until the Brexit vote; after that I imagine chaos ensued.

I just can't recall who it was back then... wonder what they're doing now.

[Carlinate]

I'm sure the Irish will have to pay a quite bit more for their share of the EU cake, wonder if they'll stomach it.

 

Gideon Rachman is an Englishman, in case you were wondering.

 

As for the Irish, they'll do just fine out of this situation.

 

Despite being one of the few EU members that will be pro UK in the negotiations because of a combination of self interest and old times sake, they will make out like bandits when the inevitable happens.

 

What you need to take into consideration is that after partition in 1922 the Republic of Ireland ( Free State as it was then ) was the poorest part of the island of Ireland and poorer than every part of the UK.

 

Nearly 80% of the industry was in the part of Ireland gerrymandered into the UK. That situation was then made worse by a trade war that the British conducted following the War of Independence, poor losers.

 

Despite this, after joining the EEC in 1973 Ireland's economy has grown to such an extent that it has outperformed every region of the UK other than the South East of England which contains the City of London.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjM8O6HoYLVAhXHIcAKHZ2RBrQQFggtMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2F2017%2Fjun%2F29%2Fireland-says-dozen-london-based-banks-to-relocate-to-dublin-over-brexit&usg=AFQjCNEUbCwAqUuY1cTT_DAsy6GpdfB0Aw

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjM8O6HoYLVAhXHIcAKHZ2RBrQQFgg7MAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.businessinsider.com%2F12-city-banks-relocating-to-dublin-after-brexit-2017-6&usg=AFQjCNGNtJSEMTipBuXdYz3xsg9Vpkvllg

 

Ireland has had the fastest growing economy in the EU for the last four years on the trot.

 

Don't concern yourself with Ireland's problems, worry about what we are going to lose in the UK.

[Hairyloon]

Worth a look:

https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit-twitter-thread-political-analyst-european-union-united-kingdom-united-states-america-7834846

[Puggie]

I enjoy vigorous debate. This is one of the places for it.

 

 

As human beings we evolved for conflict, and our cognitive abilities (verbal reasoning, spatial awareness, memory etc) have all evolved to help us manipulate our adversaries for our own survival.

 

We all enjoy a vigorous debate because it allows us to excersize these cognitions in preparation for conflict, and our brains reward us for doing so.

[I1L2T3]

Some banks will be moving some operations, how does that equate to the UK losing business?

Bit like saying Tesco is moving some of it's business to smaller outlets.

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2017 at 22:48 ----------

 

 

 

And a share of the hole that the UK leaves behind, and the loss of the rest of their fishing fleet,

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/britain/ireland-is-very-vulnerable-the-five-things-you-need-to-know-as-the-uk-backs-out-of-the-eu-fishing-deal-35888364.html

 

Irelands share of any funding gap is pretty small, and any damage to fishing will be very comfortably offset by the gains they make in other sectors. Us leaving would mean realignment for the Irish too but make no mistake it'll be much worse for us. The economic damage is already very significant.

 

---------- Post added 12-07-2017 at 07:13 ----------

 

Sure I did - I said - "we decide who comes into the country based on the skills and expertise we need at any given point. I'm Pro- immigration, just not pro- uncontrolled immigration. "

 

That's the thing though - immigration from the EU is largely self-managing. People come here from the EU in response to demand, and they can leave quickly and easily too. Most inward migrants from the EU are workers prepared to deploy themselves flexibly within the workforce. They share similar culture and values as us. Non-EU immigration is another story altogether - the proportion of workers is much lower. The workers are much less flexible. Many are coming here permanently. Worse still, taking my own industry as an example, those that do come here to work often displace UK workers - the traditional apprentice/graduate routes into IT have been massively reduced because ready-made workers are just imported, mostly from SE Asia.