RJRB Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Quote: Originally Posted by ANGELFIRE1 View Post As a Ukipper Our schools and health service and housing cannot cope, on the money here. Angel1. I find it difficult to reply to an answer that blindly fails to address the post I made. Schools are in the news constantly, many failing their pupils, class sizes are always in the news as to the number of pupils in a class, it needs a drastic reduction so more time can be spent on each pupil. Many schools are in need of some kind of repair to their buildings. NHS, apparently listening to the News or discussion programmes the whole system is on its knees and about to collapse. Housing is a given, we require upward of 250,000 built every year just to keep the status quo. Last year was a record for house building, 217,000. So do the math here, every year the housing situation gets worse and worse. Angel1. All the above may have some truth to a greater or lesser extent. I revert to he fact that the leaders of Brexit were able to blame most ills on immigration and this line has been swallowed by those who only hear sound bites and read headlines. The NHS will be crippled without immigrant medical and support staff. Housing will continue to be an issue until some government invests sufficient money into affordable housing. Similarly with schools and education.More teachers and better schools.Having said that I went to school through the 50s and 60s andmost classsizes exceeded 35 pupils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 [People cannot just come into this country at 64 and claim a pension when they are 65, can they? So should they be able to get other services Scot free, from day one? Why not ask the sizeable contingent of Brit OAPs living in Spain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 All the above may have some truth to a greater or lesser extent. I revert to he fact that the leaders of Brexit were able to blame most ills on immigration and this line has been swallowed by those who only hear sound bites and read headlines. The NHS will be crippled without immigrant medical and support staff. Housing will continue to be an issue until some government invests sufficient money into affordable housing. Similarly with schools and education.More teachers and better schools.Having said that I went to school through the 50s and 60s andmost classsizes exceeded 35 pupils. I seem to remember my classes at school in the 70s and 80s being 27 - 30 or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 For those from the EU the picture was most positive: they were estimated to have contributed £1.34 for every £1 they took out. The same research found those from outside the EU put in £1.02 for every £1 received. Immigrants here for longer contribute less to public funds The same research looked at all immigrants living in the UK between 1995 and 2012—these people could have arrived decades ago in some cases. For EU immigrants the contributions were smaller and those from outside the EU took out more than they put in. https://fullfact.org/immigration/do-eu-immigrants-contribute-134-every-1-they-receive/ The whole argument is nonsense. Its up to the Government to tax people, fairly. People cannot just come into this country at 64 and claim a pension when they are 65, can they? So should they be able to get other services Scot free, from day one? I think by the time I turned 21 I'd cost the State a lot of money - I worked it out once at about a quarter of a million in hospital fees, education, etc.... Most people will NEVER pay more into the system than they cost. Only about the top 10-15% of people actually pay more in tax than they cost over their lifetime and that tax pays for everyone else. So really - almost everyone gets their services either "Scot free" (because Scots are obviously freeloaders right? It's a horrible expression please don't use it with a capital letter) or at a very much reduced cost. NB: scot free or scotfree means "free from scotfreo" a royal tax or imposition. If you say Scot free you are implying Scots are freebooters etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 I seem to remember my classes at school in the 70s and 80s being 27 - 30 or somethingDaughter just went on a 2-day road trip with her class today. International school, English stream, class size is 15. 100% state-funded. As is this week’s trip, with everything provided, except clothes & toiletries. She’s been asked to join their Europe club (invite-only) last week, with a dozen trips scheduled to year end (Brussels, Strasbourg, Nice, Munich,...), all about EU history, membership and functioning. 100% state-funded again. Don’t settle for less. Especially not for the sake of jingoistic nonsense on a stick peddled by self-interested multi-millionaires... ...or you can, you know, continue to bask in being mushroomed and having your uninformed bias and cap-doffing prowess stoked and nurtured by your betters [edit: turn of sentence not meant at you, mel ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 For those from the EU the picture was most positive: they were estimated to have contributed £1.34 for every £1 they took out. The same research found those from outside the EU put in £1.02 for every £1 received. Immigrants here for longer contribute less to public funds The same research looked at all immigrants living in the UK between 1995 and 2012—these people could have arrived decades ago in some cases. For EU immigrants the contributions were smaller and those from outside the EU took out more than they put in. https://fullfact.org/immigration/do-eu-immigrants-contribute-134-every-1-they-receive/ EU migrants still contribute more than they take out over the long term, migration from elsewhere was always controlled by the UK government. There was a page about how much UK-born residents pay in for every pound they take out but I can't seem to find it, it was largely like long term non-EU migrants. UK-born take out more than they pay in. Angelfires justification for Brexit is essentially like saying you should chop off your arm because you have a pain in your foot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Daughter just went on a 2-day road trip with her class today. International school, English stream, class size is 15. 100% state-funded. As is this week’s trip, with everything provided, except clothes & toiletries. She’s been asked to join their Europe club (invite-only) last week, with a dozen trips scheduled to year end (Brussels, Strasbourg, Nice, Munich,...), all about EU history, membership and functioning. 100% state-funded again. We've crossed the Channel 3 times recently on the Portsmouth - Caen route - there has invariably been a coach party or two of French schoolchildren coming to / returning from England - yet to see an English one, On our many trips to France, outside the school holidays, any visit to an historic site, art gallery etc would almost inevitably encounter a group or two of schoolkids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Most people will NEVER pay more into the system than they cost.. There seems to be agreement on that. But the left wingers still want to squeeze the rich until they burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey104 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Would you have a problem with that? Yes....... ---------- Post added 14-05-2018 at 23:41 ---------- Some of the baseless prejudices are beginning to show. The Project Fear based on xenophobia and racism was a major factor in the referendum. Some voters were unable to differentiate between free movement of EU nationals and illegal,uncontrolled immigration. The result will be that we could lose many valued ,tax paying workers in health care,services and agriculture,and still be unable to control immigration. Brilliant ! You are aware that project fear came from the remainers, don’t you? ---------- Post added 14-05-2018 at 23:42 ---------- Oh come on - the average Brexiters view of immigrants is a horde of people come to rob our banks rape our women and plunder our fields, they just assume "immigrants" are not honest and out for plunder... The fact that they may actually pay taxes - and may even pay more than them simply never registers... Showing your ignorance now ---------- Post added 14-05-2018 at 23:43 ---------- All in comers should be assessed as to whether they are coming here on holiday, or other reasons. People visiting this country should pay their way via a compulsory one off payment or insurance. After 5-10 years they will have paid taxes just like the rest of us, and if we want them to stay, should be treated the same as everyone else. Precisely.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRB Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) Yes....... You are aware that project fear came from the remainers, don’t you? The project fear that I refer to is that of the Brexiteers. Just read back a few posts and you might be able to follow the argument sensibly Edited May 16, 2018 by nikki-red fixed the quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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