The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[Puggie]

There's a lot of naivety on this thread.

 

Do you honestly think the direction of travel is dictated by ministers at home and bureaucrats abroad?

 

The outcome of Brexit will be determined by a very small number of influential world leaders. As I said previously there won't be any progress made until we know if Merkel is safe.

 

Once the actors are "locked in" commitments can start being made and there will be plenty of bilaterals.

 

In the meantime you can expect the posturing and point-scoring to continue unabated. The last thing the politicians want is a boring Brexit!

[chalga]

The Financial settlement stance the EU are adopting makes it increasingly clear the UK Government should walk away from these so called negotiations with these EU people. If we do that now, then these EU people can come crawling back later and accept deals on our terms.

 

The EU are not bothered if you walk away or not,you had your chance from the day after the referendum and chose to negotiate your way back into something you were voted out of.The EU are trying to negotiate your way out of the EU,as the UK passed on going out on their terms,to WTO.The EU are not bothered about the UK whatever the UK decide to do,they are only bothered about getting the best for the people of the EU,and long may it continue to be that way.

[hobinfoot]

The country would probably vote to remain if the referendum was run again. But it voted to leave in the one that was run. So let's get on with the negotiations and see what happens. Otherwise we will end up with a neverendum. People on both sides of this argument will never except the outcome of the vote.

[I1L2T3]

The General Election wasn't a 1 issue election, unlike the referendum. There are many factors involved, not least the vagaries of the electoral system that doesn't exactly give a clear picture. If you look at the votes cast the Tories won the most votes so exactly how is that not a mandate. It is obscured by the system. The Lib dems were clear on their position, so that doesn't exactly show a great support for undoing the decision does it!?

 

I wouldn't trust the polls if I were you, perhaps they show the same remain potential victory that they showed before the referendum. How did that turn out?

 

I've pointed out why brexiteers would steer clear of this thread, as has Apelike.

 

Indeed the GE was widely considered to be a single issue election.

 

What a short memory you have

[L00b]

I mean May/Boris et al.

Thats my point. If they have not much to gain with their intransigence, then why do it unless they actually believe they can just walk away to avoid paying an exit bill?

Right, got you now - and thank you

 

About "why do it", as I pointed to Lord Rex in a recent post, their 'intransigeance' is just for show, posturing for domestic politics as part and parcel of medium-term management of expectations (they have less than 2 years to foster acceptance of the deal amongst enough of the entire electorate (Leavers and Remainers) which, problematically for them, won't be cake and eating territory, by very far: it will necessarily be 'less than' the UK has been enjoying for 40 years, which will displease the Remainers, and fall well short of the unrealistic expectations peddled by the Leave campaign, which will displease the Leavers; rock, meet hard place).

 

Which is why I daresaid (sp?) in that same post to Lord Rex, that May's team know the Brexit score and end-game just fine: the UK cannot afford to not have a deal (it simply hasn't got the resources to do/prepare/implement/etc. everything which it needs to for an instant walk-out...and given the pace at which governments, ministries and departments generally move, I qualify exiting the EU in a year and 9 months as an instant walk-out just the same), the EU holds just about the entire deck of cards, and the game clock has been playing for the EU ever since May filed the Article 50 notification (a situation severely worsened for the UK by May's GE adventure).

 

The proof is in the (non-eating of the-) pudding: so far, since negotiations started, and for all his "our-way-or-the-highway" testiculating and May's, Davis has either caved in outright at, or given ground to, every demand from Barnier.

 

Actions speak louder than words: as true as it ever was.

Once the actors are "locked in" commitments can start being made and there will be plenty of bilaterals.

Bilaterals? Presumably, between the UK and the EU, you mean? Edited July 12, 2017 by L00b

[I1L2T3]

The country would probably vote to remain if the referendum was run again. But it voted to leave in the one that was run. So let's get on with the negotiations and see what happens. Otherwise we will end up with a neverendum. People on both sides of this argument will never except the outcome of the vote.

 

The negotiations look set to implode within two weeks anyway.

 

The UK doesn't hold the upper hand. It never did. In fact it's doubtful if we'll even have the small victory of claiming we walked away. We'll be sent packing.

 

The EU has spent two years assembling a hardcore team of negotiators and solid negotiating principles. We've fronted up a clown, a disgraced minister who lives in la-la land, and a fairly decent but desperately naive negotiator in Davis. All led by the most incapable prime minister for decades who instead of planning has wasted a year forming nonsensical policy,fighting ridiculous court battles.

 

It's a complete joke. There is nobody in any party who can sensibly take it forward.

 

Now we're all aware of some of the realities of what we face we need to starting thinking about how to get out of this mess.

[Carlinate]

 

Now we're all aware of some of the realities of what we face we need to starting thinking about how to get out of this mess.

 

I'm still relying on Will Rogers sentiment " If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't stupidity get us out of it? "

 

It's our best, and possibly only hope!

 

Your character assessment of our 'Team' is spot on, unfortunately.

[gomgeg]

Very few posters actually bothering to defend Brexit on this thread now.

 

They know the game is up. They know the Tories and Labour are going to have to drop the idea.

 

---------- Post added 12-07-2017 at 13:54 ----------

 

 

They don't bother because they probably have a life or/and a job and don't have the inclination or time to argue about something they already won in the referendum.

[Carlinate]

 

---------- Post added 12-07-2017 at 13:54 ----------

 

[/color]

 

They don't bother because they probably have a life or/and a job and don't have the inclination or time to argue about something they already won in the referendum.

 

Ever heard the expression 'Pyrrhic Victory'?

 

I'm retired by the way.

[Magilla]

Maybe brexiteers have better things to do than defending the will of the people on a negative thread about the topic

 

Well, the bad news does just keep on coming. Might be a factor.

 

which serves no purpose because the decision has been made!

 

Nothings over till it's over.

 

If the "paradise" project leave promised doesn't appear and people start losing their jobs they'll be changing their minds pretty quick.