The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[tzijlstra]

Five Star and the League certainly view the EU as being responsible for the situation:

 

“The upcoming elections will not be political, but instead a real and true referendum ... between who wants Italy to be a free country and who wants it to be servile and enslaved,” League leader Matteo Salvini said today

 

“Today Italy is not free; it is occupied financially by Germans, French and eurocrats.”

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-politics-euro-election-analysis/italys-fresh-election-risks-being-referendum-on-euro-idUSKCN1IT1IF

 

Italian democracy is being sacrificed on the orders of the Commission.

 

Of course they do, populists always seek the easy victim. In the end thoughit was Italy’s democratically elected President. However - the sytem of democracy in Italy is potentially even more frought than the British system.

[Car Boot]

Of course they do, populists always seek the easy victim. In the end thoughit was Italy’s democratically elected President. However - the sytem of democracy in Italy is potentially even more frought than the British system.

 

The Italian President, a former International Monetary Fund (IMF) official, has stopped a democratically elected government from appointing the finance minister of its choice.

 

The current Italian coalition now has a majority and could govern, but the President won't allow them to have a finance minister who opposes Italian membership of the Euro. Acting on the orders of the EU and the IMF he is preventing a democratically elected government from governing.

 

The IMF warned that voting to leave the EU would create an immediate recession for the UK. Its economic forecasts are notoriously wrong and it believes that bankers are all that matters in any society.

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2018 at 07:57 ----------

 

He specifically rejected him because it's the new government's policy to stay in the Euro - the proposed finance minister wants to leave it and refused to accept the policy of the government. You'd think the two coalition partners could have found someone who supports their programme to do the job.

 

Do you believe that only pro-EU people should be allowed to be politicians or hold public office? That's a rather worrying thought - and a very slippery slope to be on.

 

Commitment to democracy has always been a problem for the Remain side. And for the EU.

[melthebell]

Five Star and the League certainly view the EU as being responsible for the situation:

hahahaha that says it all, like you, they believe the same, they are obsessed by the EU, and will do anything and everything to paint them in a bad light to get their point across

 

its not surprising they do

its not surprising you take their side

 

it doesnt make it true, its an internal Italian issue blown up into an EU thing by eurosceptics

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2018 at 09:30 ----------

 

 

Do you believe that only pro-EU people should be allowed to be politicians or hold public office? That's a rather worrying thought - and a very slippery slope to be on.

 

Commitment to democracy has always been a problem for the Remain side. And for the EU.

do you believe a pro european government would take on a finance minister that doesnt support the EU? if you do you really dont have any sense. Thats like taking on a member of government that doesnt like you, its only going to cause problems.

Currently our whole government and opposition are in turmoil because they are full of leavers and remainers, NOBODY agrees on anything.

 

Surely to succeed what they need to do is run an election and get enough votes themselves so they can run the government how they see fit, so the president doesnt have to step in

Edited May 29, 2018 by melthebell

[Car Boot]

Of course they do, populists always seek the easy victim. In the end thoughit was Italy’s democratically elected President. However - the sytem of democracy in Italy is potentially even more frought than the British system.

 

Italy's 'democratically elected' President isn't elected by the people. But by members of Parliament and regional delegates. Just 1009 voters to be accurate. This is democracy EU style.

 

Not real democracy at all. Especially as an unelected by the people president can prevent a truly democratic elected by the people government from selecting its choice of finance minister - which is essential for putting its policies into practice.

[melthebell]

Italy's 'democratically elected' President isn't elected by the people. But by members of Parliament and regional delegates. Just 1009 voters to be accurate. This is democracy EU style.

 

Not real democracy at all. Especially as an unelected by the people president can prevent a truly democratic elected by the people government from selecting its choice of finance minister - which is essential for putting its policies into practice.

does the EU appoint our queen? shes not elected by us, but has say over the parliament if needed, hung parliaments need to go to her?

 

didnt think so, all countries generally have a monarch OR a president

[altus]

Do you believe that only pro-EU people should be allowed to be politicians or hold public office? That's a rather worrying thought - and a very slippery slope to be on.

Of course not, but if you are appointing people into senior government positions it makes it difficult to govern if they don't accept the government's position on major issues. For example, we have a finance minister who thinks we should stay in the EU but accepts that it's the government's position that we are leaving. The proposed finance minister for Italy didn't accept that it was the government's position that Italy should stay in the Euro.

 

Imagine the consequences of a UK government appointing a health minister who said they were going to work towards the privatisation of the NHS even though that was against the government's position of supporting it.

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2018 at 09:55 ----------

 

Italy's 'democratically elected' President isn't elected by the people. But by members of Parliament and regional delegates. Just 1009 voters to be accurate. This is democracy EU style.

No, it's democracy Italian style - they had the same system before they joined the EU (or its precursors).

 

Not real democracy at all. Especially as an unelected by the people president can prevent a truly democratic elected by the people government from selecting its choice of finance minister - which is essential for putting its policies into practice.

He said he was going to work against the government's policy on the Euro.

[ENG601PM]

Excellent.

 

Now back that up with evidence, rather than xenophobic bigotry.

 

It's simple demographics. There are about a thousand Romanians in UK jails from a population of a 100k. It's no more than a rough extrapolation against the UK population of 85m.

 

Sorry sunshine, you'll get, no xenophobia from me. Feel free to check and if I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up, and if you are wrong I'll accept an apology. I'll come back to this unless you beat me to it.

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2018 at 12:39 ----------

 

Is a Romanian criminal more likely to commit a hundred times more crime than a British criminal?

 

See above. I don't know the answer to your question, merely the rough arisings from the (current!) prison population via convictions. I appreciate all the vagaries around such a rough figure but we must admit that even extreme police and judicial persecution wouldn't account for the ratio.

Edited May 29, 2018 by ENG601PM

[El Cid]

It's simple demographics. There are about a thousand Romanians in UK jails from a population of a 100k. It's no more than a rough extrapolation against the UK population of 85m.

 

Sorry sunshine, you'll get, no xenophobia from me.

 

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimated that, in 2012, 101,000 Romanian-born people were resident in the UK. By 2017, this estimate had risen to 390,000

 

That is xenophobia for you, or do you just read the Daily Mail?

[ENG601PM]

I see. Perhaps I had out of date figures, in which case mea culpa. From your figures st appears that Romanians are *only* 25 times more likely to be in prison than UK natives.

 

If that was a way of accusing me of xenophobia it was a bit misconceived.

[Top Cats Hat]

From your figures st appears that Romanians are *only* 25 times more likely to be in prison than UK natives.

 

You seem to be confusing 'propensity to commit crime' with 'propensity to be investigated for crime'.