The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[Top Cats Hat]

Let me get this right, you want 48% of the UK population to leave the country?

 

Strictly speaking 75%, as only 25% of the population voted to leave.

[I1L2T3]

Gotcha:thumbsup:

 

I'm a wishy-washy liberal at heart and want us all to get along, and I'm sure if there was a vaguely cohesive plan we might get behind it. But there isn't.

 

As scary as it sounds, this whole debacle wouldn't be happening under Blair or thatcher. They'd have either ignored the result altogether or just ploughed on and sorted something out.

 

The whole thing is a Tory civil war being fought in the open.

[Harrystottle]

Nationalism is at the root of most conflicts.

The dilution of borders,tariffs,sovereignty and advancement of cooperation between countries is essential to peace

 

Interesting post. Trouble is, no politician in this country that I can remember has ever said this quite so forcefully.

 

And therein lies the problem. We are being taken towards no borders and lack of sovereignty by stealth, as we have been since we joined the EEC. Yes, the ambition for "ever closer union" has always been there in the aims of the EU, but it has always been very, very much downplayed by our politicians and media.

 

Still, I suppose that when you are standing for election in a nation state then slagging off nationalism before issuing a clarion call of "Vote for me! I will ensure that we give away powers and open the borders!" is somewhat of a difficult sell.

 

So obviously lies were the way to go.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Harrystottle

[Jeffrey Shaw]

The whole thing is a Tory civil war being fought in the open.

And across the road from a Labour one.

[ez8004]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44438846

 

JLR moving a production line out from the Midlands to Slovakia. So it begins.

 

This is on the back of Rolls-Royce considering moving its engine design approval to Germany in order to access the EU market by abiding by EU regulations.

 

The car industry is going to get destroyed because EU car makers are already warned from buying UK manufactured components because they will no longer count towards the quota of parts that can qualify the cars from being from the EU in origin.

 

Let’s celebrate these job losses.

Edited June 11, 2018 by ez8004

[melthebell]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44438846

 

JLR moving a production line out from the Midlands to Slovakia. So it begins.

 

This is on the back of Rolls-Royce considering moving its engine design approval to Germany in order to access the EU market by abiding by EU regulations.

 

The car industry is going to get destroyed because EU car makers are already warned from buying UK manufactured components because they will no longer count towards the quota of parts that can qualify the cars from being from the EU in origin.

 

Let’s celebrate these job losses.

 

well it does save all those slovakians trudging all the way over here for a job i suppose

[adeade]

The way things are going you will need an entire forum to discuss Brexit ! So the battle lines are drawn EU Vs UK should be be interesting.

 

battle between pride and reality

[andyofborg]

 

Sums the situation up, time the whingers got on board and accepted the democratic will of the majority who could be bothered to vote.

 

 

so why didn't you and your fellow brexiters accept the result of the referendum in the 70?

 

that too expressed the democratic will of the majority who could be bothered to vote.

 

---------- Post added 11-06-2018 at 20:52 ----------

 

Interesting post. Trouble is, no politician in this country that I can remember has ever said this quite so forcefully.

 

And therein lies the problem. We are being taken towards no borders and lack of sovereignty by stealth, as we have been since we joined the EEC. Yes, the ambition for "ever closer union" has always been there in the aims of the EU, but it has always been very, very much downplayed by our politicians and media.

 

So obviously lies were the way to go.

 

we don't have any less sovereignty though, we just exercise it in a different way.for the benefit of more people

 

the time of the nation state is pretty much over, if you want that time back then

 

a) you need to take down and break up the big global and local mega corporations which are too big to be effectively managed by a single government and put constraints on them and their successors to prevent them getting big again,

b) you need to severely limit the flow of money, information, goods and possibly people across borders

c) some wealth equalisation inside countries would be probably be helpful too

 

the problem is, doing that is likely to cripple the poorer countries who have benefited from globalisation and the employment opportunities it has provided both locally in their own countries and abroad.

 

the more advanced countries may not have benefited as much by keeping jobs but they have benefited from cheaper goods. de-globalising which is essentially what recovering traditional nations states is, will make goods more expensive which means increased debt or a lower standard of living or if the workers get organised then the sort of strike/higher wage/higher inflation cycles of the uk in the 1970s.

 

---------- Post added 11-06-2018 at 20:58 ----------

 

I'm a wishy-washy liberal at heart and want us all to get along, and I'm sure if there was a vaguely cohesive plan we might get behind it. But there isn't.

 

in an ideal world, we would have had a sensible discussion as a country as to what we wanted and where we wanted to be and then done the article 50 thing.

 

the problem is, there isn't a plan, cohesive or not, which would not result in the conservative party tearing itself apart. theresa may is winging it hoping for something to happen which saves her and the country from this mess.

 

one of the reasons the referendum came out the way it did was that cameron deliberately ran a poor campaign to try and keep his party together.

 

As scary as it sounds, this whole debacle wouldn't be happening under Blair or thatcher. They'd have either ignored the result altogether or just ploughed on and sorted something out.

 

we would never had had a referendum under either of those two, both knew that no matter the result it would tear their party apart.

[tinfoilhat]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44438846

 

JLR moving a production line out from the Midlands to Slovakia. So it begins.

 

This is on the back of Rolls-Royce considering moving its engine design approval to Germany in order to access the EU market by abiding by EU regulations.

 

The car industry is going to get destroyed because EU car makers are already warned from buying UK manufactured components because they will no longer count towards the quota of parts that can qualify the cars from being from the EU in origin.

 

Let’s celebrate these job losses.

 

That one caught my eye, although in fairness the plant itself will still be gettiing massive investment and job losses aren't likely to be huge.

[Top Cats Hat]

Not on such a grand scale but still affecting people's lives, my vet is German and pre referendum she and her partner were planning a massive investment in their practice. Modern vitnery surgery is incredibly high tech and she was looking to borrow half a million for new equipment and buildings. Now it's pretty certain that in the end, some reciprocal arrangement will be agreed about the rights of EU nationals but that sadly is not good enough for her bank. If she can't demonstrate NOW that after March next year she will still have the right to live and work in the UK, they will not lend her the money.

 

So she's off back to Germany in December. Well done all you leave voters in Barnsley. You have just seen off one of the finest vets in South Yorkshire.