Should cyclists be required to wear High-Visibility Vests or Jackets?

[Berberis]

please stop digging, this is getting painful to watch.

 

Im not digging. I have made a claim, then backed it up with the government published legislation, highlighting the relevant paragraph. I can't see how I am wrong, unless you do. Please provide the evidence to back up your claim.

[ads36]

well, the government published legislation will do for a start...

 

(it says, in legal-ese, that you're allowed to use a flashy light, as long as the minimum brightness is 4cd)

 

there's this from cyclinguk:

 

Front Lamp

 

One is required, showing a white light, positioned centrally or offside, up to 1500mm from the ground, aligned towards and visible from the front. If capable of emitting a steady light, it must be marked as conforming to BS6102/3 or an equivalent EC standard.

 

If capable of emitting only a flashing light, it must emit at least 4 candela.

 

and this from british cycling:

 

At it’s simplest level though, what does the law require? You need a white front light that, since 2005, can be flashing and a rear red light that’s also allowed to flash. However, the RVLR also requires your bike to have a rear reflector and pedal reflectors.

 

from 'cycle law'

 

Following the 2005 amendment to The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations[5] it is also now also legal to have a flashing light on a pedal bike

 

towsure:

 

Flashing Lights

A common misconception is that flashing cycle lights are illegal. This was the case for the main lights until 2005 however recognising the efficiency and effectiveness of flashing cycle lights the law was changed to permit flashing lights at the front and rear, regardless of whether used as the primary light or additional lighting.

 

cyclist defence fund:

 

Flashing lights

 

When I originally researched and wrote on this topic in 2003, use of flashing lights was not in fact legal. This was despite the fact that in an urban environment, bicycle lighting is not about seeing but about being seen. It’s about conspicuity, not about illumination. Being seen at night by other road users is a priority.

 

The detailed regulations, covering all motor vehicles (Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (link is external), as considerably amended, most recently in 2009 (link is external)) are fiendishly complex and little is served in an article of this nature by detailed citation or reference.

 

wikipedia:

 

In the UK, the regulations governing bicycle lights are set out in the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989[4] and their subsequent amendments, summarized in the Highway Code.[5] The regulations require a white front light, a red rear light, a red rear reflector, and amber/yellow pedal reflectors on the front and rear of both pedals. Reflectors must conform to BS 6102/2 or an equivalent European standard. The situation for lights is more complicated:

 

a light with a steady mode is considered approved only if it conforms to BS 6102/3 or an equivalent European standard;

a light without a steady mode is considered approved only if it flashes at a constant rate of between 60 and 240 flashes per minute and has a luminous intensity of at least 4 candela;

 

and that's just the first page of google.

Edited July 13, 2017 by ads36

[Berberis]

well, the government published legislation will do for a start...

 

(it says, in legal-ese, that you're allowed to use a flashy light, as long as the minimum brightness is 4cd)

 

there's this from cyclinguk:

 

Cyclone and stifflersmom said I was either making it up or demonstrably wrong.

 

The law is simple and states: a front position lamp capable of emitting a flashing light (whether or not it is also capable of emitting a steady light).

 

I have demonstrably shown I am correct and no weasel words will change that.

 

---------- Post added 13-07-2017 at 15:52 ----------

 

well, the government published legislation will do for a start...

 

 

Most of your quotes are about it now being legal to use flashing lights. This is not the dispute. It is whether it is a legal requirement have flashing lights.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Berberis

[ads36]

i know, that's the point.

 

it isn't a requirement.

 

you'd think BritishCycling, et al, might mention that...

[Berberis]

i know, that's the point.

 

it isn't a requirement.

 

you'd think BritishCycling, et al, might mention that...

 

Yes, but why does the legislation say what it does then? Sure the law on the statute books has the final say.

 

a front position lamp capable of emitting a flashing light (whether or not it is also capable of emitting a steady light) which is fitted to—

(i)a pedal cycle;

 

Do you not believe the above is the law?

Edited July 13, 2017 by Berberis

[ads36]

yes, that's a quote from the legislation, but it doesn't say what you think it does.

 

it's an amendment/addition, to a body of text in the full 1989 version.

 

what does the *full* text say?

 

here you go, section 13, paragraph 2: "no vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which automatically emits a flashing light"

 

the text you're clinging to has been added as one of the exceptions.

 

eg. you can't have a flashy light on your vehicle, unless the vehicle is a bike.

Edited July 13, 2017 by ads36

[Berberis]

i know, that's the point.

 

it isn't a requirement.

 

you'd think BritishCycling, et al, might mention that...

 

In fact BritishCycling reference the The Road Vehicles Lighting and Goods Vehicles (Plating and Testing) (Amendment) Regulations 2009 but these make no changes to the requirements of lights (to my knoweldge). Its the The Road Vehicles Lighting (Amendment) Regulations 2005 that brought in the requirement for a front position lamp capable of emitting a flashing light.

 

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/bike-kit/article/izn20130902-Buying-bike-lights-0

 

---------- Post added 13-07-2017 at 16:08 ----------

 

yes, that's a quote from the legislation, but it doesn't say what you think it does.

 

it's an amendment/addition, to a body of text in the full 1989 version.

 

what does the *full* text say?

 

here you go, section 13, paragraph 2: "no vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which automatically emits a flashing light"

 

the text

 

But that section has been amended by the 2005 amendments.

[ads36]

er, exactly?

 

in 1989, flashy lights were stated as illegal on vehicles, apart from exceptions, like indicators.

 

in 2005, bike lights were included in the exceptions.

 

the language is *horrible*, as these things often are.

 

in exactly the same way that indicators are allowed to flash, but not all car lights are required to flash. so bike lights are allowed to flash, but not all bike lights are required to flash.

Edited July 13, 2017 by ads36

[stifflersmom]

In fact BritishCycling reference the The Road Vehicles Lighting and Goods Vehicles (Plating and Testing) (Amendment) Regulations 2009 but these make no changes to the requirements of lights (to my knoweldge). Its the The Road Vehicles Lighting (Amendment) Regulations 2005 that brought in the requirement for a front position lamp capable of emitting a flashing light.

 

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/bike-kit/article/izn20130902-Buying-bike-lights-0

 

---------- Post added 13-07-2017 at 16:08 ----------

 

 

But that section has been amended by the 2005 amendments.

Faceplam.

Try reading the original 1989 section 13 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/regulation/13/made) and the 2005 amendments (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/2559/regulation/6/made) together.

[Becky B]

Faceplam.

Try reading the original 1989 section 13 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/regulation/13/made) and the 2005 amendments (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/2559/regulation/6/made) together.

 

There's also an explanatory memo attached to the 2005 amendments, which explains the amendments permit a flashing light to be attached to a bicycle...