Public sector pay

[ECCOnoob]

My post was very short so I'm surprised that you managed to misunderstand it.

At no point did I say that all public sector staff are overpaid.

 

If your first instinct wasn't to throw out some infantile abuse you might take the time to understand that excessive pay levels at the top of any organisation, including the public sector, almost inevitably have a negative impact on the pay of staff on lower pay scales.

 

As a parent of two NHS staff and one police officer I am well aware that public sector staff are not overpaid. I actually think that, after several years of austerity, most (but not all) of them are badly underpaid. Just throwing money willy-nilly at the public sector is not the solution, there also needs to be action to address the imbalance between pay at the top and pay at the bottom.

 

I would 100% agree with that BUT its also important to ensure someone keeps their eyes on a potential imbalance between those at the lower end of the public sector and those at the lower end of the private sector.

 

As someone who has been working in the private sector for most of my career I have heard on more than enough occasions some colleagues upset because they have NO payrise whatsoever year on year let alone 1% one. They have no decent pension scheme. They have little opportunities to flex time, flex working or special leave offered to SOME of those in the civil service. They have no acccess to incremental pay scales, overtime payments, paid sick leave or other financial protections offers to SOME of those in the civil service.

 

That can cause its own imbalance.

 

If there is action to be taken against low pay, it should be in ALL sectors and ALL industries. This constant focus on the "public" sector from certain political sides and the unions is doing nothing more than create friction and a loss of sympathy from those working in similar roles on the private (and often non unionised) side.

 

Whatever Hammond said or however clumsily he said it, that IMO is the point he was trying to make. For all the press hubub and all the left wing jumping up and down he MAY well have a good point.

Edited July 16, 2017 by ECCOnoob

[alchemist]

Undoubtably it was leaked for that reason but it doesn't make a difference if he said it, as he seems to have done. Saying that having a slightly better pension that someone else (and they are only slightly better) isn't an excuse for continuing to cut public sector wages. They can't pay their mortgages/rents and bills today with pensions they won't receive for decades.

 

If a better pension is an excuse for cutting pay can someone please explain how MP's (who are also the public sector) have the worlds best pension yet somehow managed to wangle themselves a 10% RISE the last time

 

Its pretty rich that someone one 4 times the average pay complains that THEY are the ones being overpaid!! Perhaps he needs to look in a mirror before he next opens his gob

[Andy1976]

I would 100% agree with that BUT its also important to ensure someone keeps their eyes on a potential imbalance between those at the lower end of the public sector and those at the lower end of the private sector.

 

As someone who has been working in the private sector for most of my career I have heard on more than enough occasions some colleagues upset because they have NO payrise whatsoever year on year let alone 1% one. They have no decent pension scheme. They have little opportunities to flex time, flex working or special leave offered to SOME of those in the civil service. They have no acccess to incremental pay scales, overtime payments, paid sick leave or other financial protections offers to SOME of those in the civil service.

 

That can cause its own imbalance.

 

If there is action to be taken against low pay, it should be in ALL sectors and ALL industries. This constant focus on the "public" sector from certain political sides and the unions is doing nothing more than create friction and a loss of sympathy from those working in similar roles on the private (and often non unionised) side.

 

Whatever Hammond said or however clumsily he said it, that IMO is the point he was trying to make. For all the press hubub and all the left wing jumping up and down he MAY well have a good point.

 

110% agree.

 

I went five years with 0% pay rise. Not 1%, 0%. And zero bonus. Effectively a pay cut each year. I didn't strike (because no one would care), so I did what I had to do - leave and get a better job.

 

At the time, my wife worked for the NHS. She was a medical secretary at the Hallamshire, and earned about £21k. Very nice salary. She came from a legal secretary background where she was paid £16k for a job with far more responsibility, and where she did far more work. She was often bored at the NHS.

 

In our experience as a family, the public sector is overpaid and does far better than the private sector, but I appreciate that others may have different experiences.

 

That said, as you've mentioned, sympathy isn't particularly high when public sector staff get 1% rises and complain/strike, when private sector get 0%. Of course those people won't be sympathetic - why would they!

 

Edit to say - reading back, you've put it a million times more eloquently than I could, so I'll just say I agree fully with you!

[Berberis]

Philip Hammond, Conservative MP and Chancellor of the Exchequer has just said on 'The Andrew Marr' program that public sector pay is 10% too high.

How can it be that 25+% of the workforce are paid too much, when we have had 7 years of Government pay restraint?

 

Are you guys all rushing out to work in the public sector?

 

The Conservatives dont seem to be able to shed their ideological dogma that public sector is bad, and private good.

 

"After accounting for the different organisation sizes between the public and private sector, it is estimated that on average the pay of the public sector was between 3.3% and 4.3% lower than the private sector in April 2014." Office for National Statistics Nov 2014

 

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160107090910/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_383355.pdf

 

Since 2014 private sector pay has increased more than the public sector. The 2% median in the private sector was ahead of the 1% in the public sector in 2016.

 

http://www.aol.co.uk/money/2017/02/22/private-sector-pay-rises-remain-at-2-compared-to-1-in-public/

 

There have been numerous claims by studies that the public sector is paid (in affect) more than the private sector when you count the additional perks, early retirement options and pensions.

 

Dont be forget the public sector have very large and influential unions on their side who are not happy until each and every worker is able to afford tea at the Ritz at least twice a week and will depict each and every member as something akin to Oliver pleading for more until they get it.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Berberis

[spilldig]

When was this?

 

Harold Wilson's government.

[Hairyloon]

Dont be forget the public sector have very large and influential unions on their side who are not happy until each and every worker is able to afford tea at the Ritz at least twice a week and will depict each and every member as something akin to Oliver pleading for more until they get it.

 

There is some truth in that. I was sub-contracted to a council some time back where their union had successfully argued that it wasn't fair that the office staff could adjourn to the canteen for their tea break and all the works gangs could not...

 

I'll leave you to think about the consequence of that...

[El Cid]

There have been numerous claims by studies that the public sector is paid (in affect) more than the private sector when you count the additional perks, early retirement options and pensions.

 

 

They might well be correct, but when the size of the organisations are taken into account, council employees are under paid.

 

Dont be forget the public sector have very large and influential unions on their side who are not happy until each and every worker is able to afford tea at the Ritz at least twice a week and will depict each and every member as something akin to Oliver pleading for more until they get it.

 

You must be thinking about the railway unions, very few public sector unions have any real power, unless you mean with the Labour party.

Mark Serwotka of the Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS), is very good, but do they have power?

 

I am sure public sector workers would be happy with an independent board setting their pay.

[Jonny5]

Last time Corbyn was Prime Minister.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany

[Berberis]

They might well be correct, but when the size of the organisations are taken into account, council employees are under paid..

 

Do you have any evidence of this? What comparison are you making when you refer to council staff?

[El Cid]

Do you have any evidence of this? What comparison are you making when you refer to council staff?

 

All the information is in the link in the first post, which is below.

 

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160107090910/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_383355.pdf

 

I would say the ONS are a pro-Government organisation, so they should be trustworthy.