Supertram to be closed down by 2019?

[dutch]

I have been in a bus once where some bozo got on and refused to pay. The driver said he stop the bus and go nowhere till the police gets there while there were many people in the bus who had to move on.

Childish.

 

This never happened in a tram, sometimes driver asks to move to the tram waiting ahead or get out and take the next one with a polite apology to the customers.

Professional

Edited August 2, 2017 by dutch

[Cyclone]

It does happen with the tram, although they radio for the police to come to the next stop.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

You're right, it's the South Yorkshire Supertram, although Stagecoach would have you think otherwise.

 

Sheffield is in the mythical place of South Yorkshire along with Doncaster, Rotherham and Barnsley and that's how it was when Supertram was thought up and built. Sure, people from all over get the benefit of it, including people from Chesterfield, but that's beside the point.

Mythical? No. See the Local Government Act 1972 as amended http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1972/70/contents.

[Hook]

It does happen with the tram, although they radio for the police to come to the next stop.

 

The police will never attend to a tram where somebody is refusing to pay. They'll only attend to a physical assault or similar.

[Michael_N]

I have been in a bus once where some bozo got on and refused to pay. The driver said he stop the bus and go nowhere till the police gets there while there were many people in the bus who had to move on.

Childish.

 

This never happened in a tram, sometimes driver asks to move to the tram waiting ahead or get out and take the next one with a polite apology to the customers.

Professional

 

Conductors are powerless and are told to walk away and avoid confrontation if people refuse to pay. They don't even have a penalty fare or inspectors (these are conductor mentors that are sent out on ticket checking duties, but powerless to make people pay).

 

Generally this is not well known, but is becoming more of an issue that people are just simply refusing to pay and know full well they can get away with it. There was a case with 1 particular gentlemen from the Netherthorpe area that the CPS dropped as they are powerless. The said gentlemen has not even been banned - must like throwing money away!

 

---------- Post added 02-08-2017 at 22:37 ----------

 

I have been in a bus once where some bozo got on and refused to pay. The driver said he stop the bus and go nowhere till the police gets there while there were many people in the bus who had to move on.

Childish.

 

This never happened in a tram, sometimes driver asks to move to the tram waiting ahead or get out and take the next one with a polite apology to the customers.

Professional

 

That's because the tram is on a track and other trams can't overtake.

[dutch]

When a busload of people are stuck and not going anywhere cause a driver cannot drive and deal with tickets at same time it gets stuck.

Tram has a separate ticketperson dealing with issues while the driver keeps on going.

 

Many buses in other countries have more and wider doors with a transport pass you scan making getting on or off twice as fast at busy places.

 

---------- Post added 03-08-2017 at 15:17 ----------

 

Today on a busy tram covered a reasonable distance in reasonable time. It is great it is still here today.

 

Today on a bus full of people it didn't get anywhere for a while.

Passenger getting on shows driver mobile phone and goes blablablablablablabla then gives phone to driver who starts blablabla for a while and gives phone back. Passenger gets upset, blablablabla and gives it back to driver who pushes few things on screen and gives a long explanation to the passenger who leaves after six minutes of this. A busload of passenger was waiting and watching this.

 

Uber drivers have found a loophole to scam the system. They log off the system so demands go up and prices rise so they create a busy gap logging off, then get paid more when they all log on in a surge.

In USA uber starts charging $15 for lost items left in cab.

Edited August 3, 2017 by dutch

[Puggie]

Static tram routes will never solve the problem of how you dynamically transport human beings from door to door within a city, at short notice, and on-demand.

 

Structurally trams cannot deliver this which is why all these decades later the automobile remains king with utilization rates the highest they've ever been in human history.

 

So whilst you trip over yourselves and focus on adding that extra 'spur' to the tram, perhaps take a step back and look at the wider picture.

 

Our city centre is turning into a giant car park with massive areas now reserved for one sole purpose - to park our heaps of junk. Look at [these photos for example].

 

Our residential streets hardly fair any better. They were once the capillaries for moving vehicles. Today they are dumping grounds for stationary cars because we're running out of space.

 

We need to think differently at how we do transportation for the 21st century, and nobody should have a monopoly on ideas.

[the fonz]

Static tram routes will never solve the problem of how you dynamically transport human beings from door to door within a city, at short notice, and on-demand.

 

Structurally trams cannot deliver this which is why all these decades later the automobile remains king with utilization rates the highest they've ever been in human history.

 

So whilst you trip over yourselves and focus on adding that extra 'spur' to the tram, perhaps take a step back and look at the wider picture.

 

Our city centre is turning into a giant car park with massive areas now reserved for one sole purpose - to park our heaps of junk. Look at [these photos for example].

 

Our residential streets hardly fair any better. They were once the capillaries for moving vehicles. Today they are dumping grounds for stationary cars because we're running out of space.

 

We need to think differently at how we do transportation for the 21st century, and nobody should have a monopoly on ideas.

 

Just a few points.

 

Static routes both on the tram and buses account for over 150 million journeys a year in South Yorkshire, they are certainly part of the answer. Anything to increase that benefits us all.

 

Your drawings are interesting but its worth remember that a lot of that land is planned for development, most of the red highlighted in the first picture is part of the West Bar development for example. As these developments come online parking supply will decrease and parking prices go up which will both help to reduce the numbers of commuters driving.

 

Owning a car is an aspiration in this country, much like owning a home and a lot more affordable.

[Puggie]

Your drawings are interesting but its worth remember that a lot of that land is planned for development, most of the red highlighted in the first picture is part of the West Bar development for example. As these developments come online parking supply will decrease and parking prices go up which will both help to reduce the numbers of commuters driving.

 

Owning a car is an aspiration in this country, much like owning a home and a lot more affordable.

 

Those drawings were just quick and rudimentary. You'd see allot more red ink if it accounted for on-street parking areas and undercroft carparks.

 

The truth is the number of Sheffield households with private cars has steadily increased over time despite heavy investment in static routes.

 

Back in 1981 less than 50% of Sheffield households had access to a private car. In 1991 this had jumped to 55%. In 2011 car ownership had climbed to 67% and is expected to reach 85% of all Sheffield households by 2026.

 

A journey taken by tram is normally an incomplete journey as it cannot deliver door to door like our road network can. So as our working and social lives become increasingly more flexible, we are turning to our cars for our transport needs.

[xsf7]

Mythical? No. See the Local Government Act 1972 as amended http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1972/70/contents.

 

My point, Jeffrey, being that "South Yorkshire" (and as a consequence the SYPTE) is an arbitrary concept invented in the 1970s. But it does exist, so we have to get on with it, rather than moaning about who pays for what.