Gender Fluid etc, Opinions?

[Cyclone]

"you can't do that, girls are supposed to do that blah, blah, blah".

 

Has anyone said that to you?

 

You're so pretty, here's a doll for your present. Do you want to try on mummy's makeup, play at being a nurse.

 

You're so clever, here's a set of mechano. Do you want to be a fireman or an astronaut when you grow up.

 

You guess at which is commonly said to which sex of child and how that influences when it's repeated all the time for their entire childhood.

 

---------- Post added 09-11-2017 at 13:40 ----------

 

 

What do we call someone who refuses to buy into the concept of gender?

 

Self delusional? Or truly unusual.

 

---------- Post added 09-11-2017 at 13:41 ----------

 

So Google only mentions 2 genders - male and female - and if you add 'fluid' that means to move between those two genders and their behaviours??

 

Interesting.

 

So what we're saying is, no matter how many supposed genders people claim there are, they can still only consist of male and female behaviours?

 

It's almost as if there really are only 2 genders and the rest are on the scale in between...

 

No, read the rest of the words I used and try again.

[SnailyBoy]

If in 2012 you asked 10,000 people if they were gender fluid, do you think they would all know what you meant?

 

Depends of course, on how you ask the question.

 

Well it wasn't my survey. I don't have the notes that would have accompanied it.

 

1% of the population being gender fluid doesn't seem an outrageous claim.

 

I'm happy to look at any data you may find.

 

---------- Post added 09-11-2017 at 13:42 ----------

 

Yes. It is.

 

'Lifestyle choice' implies a choice. The word 'lifestyle' implies nothing, unless you want to particularly cause an argument for no good reason.

 

You're arguing over literally nothing. Don't you have better things to do?

 

Are you being ironic?

[Cyclone]

maybe I liked doing boys stuff so didn't warrant comment. I recall erm, wearing my mums shoes to everyone else's amusement!

 

Maybe you "liked" doing boy things, because children are very perceptive and you quickly recognised the approval when you exhibited that behaviour. It's self reinforcing isn't it. Children seek approval, they recognise it even when it's not verbal, so boys like doing boy things because adults approve, and girls like doing "girl things" because adults approve.

And then we wonder why girls don't study STEM subjects as often as boys and why they aren't going into careers as engineers and scientists as often.

[Andy1976]

Gender constructs are far stronger than just 'personalities', but no, I don't think we do. Nor do we need them for sexes. It's just a bit of Victorian prudery we haven't yet got over.

Yes, agreed.

 

I have to say I can see benefits to the separation.

 

As was pointed out, urinals take up far less space (there are for example 4 urinals and 2 cubicles in our office toilet block in the men's, with 2 cubicles in the female room). From a space perspective, I can see an advantage although it's not a huge point. There's also quite a bit of renovation cost to factor in of course that could impact small businesses, removing urinals, installing cubicles etc.

 

The bigger advantage though relates to an very current debate - harassment and conduct. Most toilet facilities are those with gaps either above or below the doors. As I'm sure you'll appreciate, most of us could happily control ourselves, but can you imagine the typical West Street crowd on a Saturday night?!

 

'It were comedy gold mate. Callum, the ledge, saw this fit bird go into that cubicle and climbed on top of toilet so he could stare over at 'er as she went'.

 

Sadly, we all know that's a scene that would play out all too frequently. I question how safe people would feel in those circumstances. Perhaps I worry too much, but having seen many similar things in town, it wouldn't shock or surprise me at all.

 

---------- Post added 09-11-2017 at 13:47 ----------

 

Are you being ironic?

 

No. Are you being difficult for no real reason?

To be fair, I'd rather discuss matters that forwarded the debate. Your point doesn't. I'll leave it.

[MidgetSaw]

 

 

 

No, read the rest of the words I used and try again.

 

Yes, 'social construct' etc. etc. 'Fluid' = doesn't perform the same behaviours all the time etc. etc.

 

But, those behaviours are still either male or female behaviours. Going for a wee - to stand or to sit? There isn't, gender-wise, a third option, unless you claim that needing a colostomy bag is now a gender because it requires neither male or female traits to perform...

[Guest makapaka]

You're so pretty, here's a doll for your present. Do you want to try on mummy's makeup, play at being a nurse.

 

You're so clever, here's a set of mechano. Do you want to be a fireman or an astronaut when you grow up.

 

You guess at which is commonly said to which sex of child and how that influences when it's repeated all the time for their entire childhood. QUOTE]

 

Are you trapped in 1955?

[tinfoilhat]

Maybe you "liked" doing boy things, because children are very perceptive and you quickly recognised the approval when you exhibited that behaviour. It's self reinforcing isn't it. Children seek approval, they recognise it even when it's not verbal, so boys like doing boy things because adults approve, and girls like doing "girl things" because adults approve.

And then we wonder why girls don't study STEM subjects as often as boys and why they aren't going into careers as engineers and scientists as often.

 

Im really not very perceptive!

[Cyclone]

You might not be now, but I expect you were when you were 2 and 3 years old.

 

---------- Post added 09-11-2017 at 14:44 ----------

 

You're so pretty, here's a doll for your present. Do you want to try on mummy's makeup, play at being a nurse.

 

You're so clever, here's a set of mechano. Do you want to be a fireman or an astronaut when you grow up.

 

You guess at which is commonly said to which sex of child and how that influences when it's repeated all the time for their entire childhood.

 

Are you trapped in 1955?

 

Does it seem that I am from the points I'm making? Do you imagine that I was describing how I behave? Or perhaps I was describing how some other people behave, you take a guess.

 

---------- Post added 09-11-2017 at 15:09 ----------

 

Yes, 'social construct' etc. etc. 'Fluid' = doesn't perform the same behaviours all the time etc. etc.

 

But, those behaviours are still either male or female behaviours. Going for a wee - to stand or to sit? There isn't, gender-wise, a third option, unless you claim that needing a colostomy bag is now a gender because it requires neither male or female traits to perform...

 

Don't get hung up on toilet functions.

 

How about attracted to females - male gender behaviour, attracted to males - female gender behaviour, attracted to neither - some other gender behaviour? attracted to both - some other gender behaviour? And don't even start on furries and other less common sexual behaviours.

 

I've not read this full article, nor spent very long reading about genders;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

But there's plenty of info here.

[MidgetSaw]

You might not be now, but I expect you were when you were 2 and 3 years old.

 

---------- Post added 09-11-2017 at 14:44 ----------

 

 

Does it seem that I am from the points I'm making? Do you imagine that I was describing how I behave? Or perhaps I was describing how some other people behave, you take a guess.

 

---------- Post added 09-11-2017 at 15:09 ----------

 

 

Don't get hung up on toilet functions.

 

How about attracted to females - male gender behaviour, attracted to males - female gender behaviour, attracted to neither - some other gender behaviour? attracted to both - some other gender behaviour? And don't even start on furries and other less common sexual behaviours.

 

I've not read this full article, nor spent very long reading about genders;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

But there's plenty of info here.

 

I didn't think sexual attraction was linked to gender.

 

Being gay is different to being attracted to someone blonde. Homosexuality is genetics, having a 'type' is learned.

[Olive]

 

---------- Post added 09-11-2017 at 13:40 ----------

 

[/color]

 

Self delusional? Or truly unusual.

 

 

Ha ha, you're probably right.

 

I know the concept of gender exists, I'm thinking it would be better for everyone if we weren't beholden to it and tried to move away from it, rather than reinforce it by creating even more of them.

 

What does that make me? Not a Gender Denier. A Gender Quasher maybe?

Edited November 10, 2017 by Olive