Brick or Air Gun / Gun attack on No.3 bus Montgomery Rd S7

[sgtkate]

Or is it that people just dont report crimes these days? There is a fair bit of that happening.

 

Perhaps. Difficult to know with absolute certainty either way.

[ANGELFIRE1]

According to this youtube bb guns like real ones are likely to break reinforced glass, as opposed to air/pellet guns

 

 

Many of these kinds of video's are from the USA which have COMPLETELY different laws to the UK.

 

Please be aware in the United Kingdom we have quite severe firearm rules, covering a low power air pistol up to a "high power" air rifle.

 

The main rules for these air weapons are easy to understand.

 

Whatever form of pellet you care to use, any air rifle MUST NOT be capable of exceeding 12 foot pounds of energy. Period. 12.5 foot pounds and you are breaking the law, it's as simple as that.

 

Whatever form of pellet you care to use, any air pistol MUST NOT be capable of exceeding 6 foot pounds of energy. Period. 6.5 foot pounds and you are breaking the law.

 

These guns are highly unlikely to have the energy required to break bus windows even if you put the muzzle up to the glass to obtain full power, never mind the loss of power if shot at some distance.

 

The only way to own an air rifle in the UK that exceeds these parameters is to apply for a Firearms Certificate, which is quite complicated and has several clauses that you MUST comply with.

 

Angel1

Edited August 23, 2017 by ANGELFIRE1

[tinfoilhat]

Many of these kinds of video's are from the USA which have COMPLETELY different laws to the UK.

 

Please be aware in the United Kingdom we have quite severe firearm rules, covering a low power air pistol up to a "high power" air rifle.

 

The main rules for these air weapons are easy to understand.

 

Whatever form of pellet you care to use, any air rifle MUST NOT be capable of exceeding 12 foot pounds of energy. Period. 12.5 foot pounds and you are breaking the law, it's as simple as that.

 

Whatever form of pellet you care to use, any air pistol MUST NOT be capable of exceeding 6 foot pounds of energy. Period. 6.5 foot pounds and you are breaking the law.

 

These guns are highly unlikely to have the energy required to break bus windows even if you put the muzzle up to the glass to obtain full power, never mind the loss of power if shot at some distance.

 

The only way to own an air rifle in the UK that exceeds these parameters is to apply for a Firearms Certificate, which is quite complicated and has several clauses that you MUST comply with.

 

Angel1

 

But if youre shooting at buses you arent really giving a toss what the law thinks.

[mickey finn]

Copper plated steel ball bearings will break glass much easier than lead pellets, despite the fact most bb guns are low power Co2 guns, steel bb's transfer their energy differently from lead projectiles.

[ANGELFIRE1]

But if youre shooting at buses you arent really giving a toss what the law thinks.

 

Correct, but I am trying to say that law or no law these low powered air weapons just do not have the energy required to shoot through bus windows.

 

Angel1.

 

---------- Post added 24-08-2017 at 09:48 ----------

 

Copper plated steel ball bearings will break glass much easier than lead pellets, despite the fact most bb guns are low power Co2 guns, steel bb's transfer their energy differently from lead projectiles.

 

Oh dear I am repeating myself now. Lead and steel bb's are very different I agree. BUT these low power air weapons do NOT have the energy to shoot through bus windows, trust me on this. Apart from the energy argument bus windows are not like your greenhouse windows, bus windows are much stronger, or you would have passengers sticking their brolly's, bags, hands and god knows what else through them.

 

Remember 12 foot lbs is the max allowed by law.

 

In comparison before I gave up full bore rifle shooting my favourite .270 rifle developed the following.

 

Ballistic performance

 

Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy

90 gr (6 g) HP 3,603 ft/s (1,098 m/s) 2,595 ft·lbf (3,518 J)

130 gr (8 g) SP 3,060 ft/s (930 m/s) 2,702 ft·lbf (3,663 J)

140 gr (9 g) SP 2,916 ft/s (889 m/s) 2,644 ft·lbf (3,585 J)

150 gr (10 g) SP 2,850 ft/s (870 m/s) 2,706 ft·lbf (3,669 J)

130 gr (8 g) SST 3,200 ft/s (980 m/s) 2,955 ft·lbf (4,006 J)

 

So it developed 2,595 foot lbs up to 2,995 foot lbs. A little higher than the air weapon max of 12 foot lbs.

 

 

Angel1.

[mickey finn]

Correct, but I am trying to say that law or no law these low powered air weapons just do not have the energy required to shoot through bus windows.

 

Angel1.

 

---------- Post added 24-08-2017 at 09:48 ----------

 

 

Oh dear I am repeating myself now. Lead and steel bb's are very different I agree. BUT these low power air weapons do NOT have the energy to shoot through bus windows, trust me on this. Apart from the energy argument bus windows are not like your greenhouse windows, bus windows are much stronger, or you would have passengers sticking their brolly's, bags, hands and god knows what else through them.

 

Remember 12 foot lbs is the max allowed by law.

 

In comparison before I gave up full bore rifle shooting my favourite .270 rifle developed the following.

 

Ballistic performance

 

Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy

90 gr (6 g) HP 3,603 ft/s (1,098 m/s) 2,595 ft·lbf (3,518 J)

130 gr (8 g) SP 3,060 ft/s (930 m/s) 2,702 ft·lbf (3,663 J)

140 gr (9 g) SP 2,916 ft/s (889 m/s) 2,644 ft·lbf (3,585 J)

150 gr (10 g) SP 2,850 ft/s (870 m/s) 2,706 ft·lbf (3,669 J)

130 gr (8 g) SST 3,200 ft/s (980 m/s) 2,955 ft·lbf (4,006 J)

 

So it developed 2,595 foot lbs up to 2,995 foot lbs. A little higher than the air weapon max of 12 foot lbs.

 

 

Angel1.

 

Keep repeating yourself and keep quoting kinetic energy figures that are totally pointless to this thread, nobody cares about your .270 Winchester no matter how many times you keep telling us about it, the fact is I have seen low powered bb pistols shatter car windows with ease, specially the first shot, although a second in quick succession will obviously see the power drop off, thats all I'm saying dear.

The damage to the bus windows was just as likely to be pebbles, they act in a similar fashion to steel bb's and can be thrown by the handful using very little force and will easily cause that sort of damage, unless it was someone hidden in the bushes with a .270 Mannlicher.

[WestTinsley]

Keep repeating yourself and keep quoting kinetic energy figures that are totally pointless to this thread, nobody cares about your .270 Winchester no matter how many times you keep telling us about it, the fact is I have seen low powered bb pistols shatter car windows with ease, specially the first shot, although a second in quick succession will obviously see the power drop off, thats all I'm saying dear.

The damage to the bus windows was just as likely to be pebbles, they act in a similar fashion to steel bb's and can be thrown by the handful using very little force and will easily cause that sort of damage, unless it was someone hidden in the bushes with a .270 Mannlicher.

They weren't pebbles .. either a bb or real gun.

[mickey finn]

They weren't pebbles .. either a bb or real gun.

 

If it was a real gun the bullets are likely to have gone through both sides of the bus, if not they will be on the floor of the bus or embedded somewhere in it, easy to find.

Looking at the video the big window didnt even look like it had been penetrated by the projectile, it looked bad because it shattered due to the vibrations and flexing of the bus, whatever it was it was a stupid act.

[Guest busdriver1]

If it was a real gun the bullets are likely to have gone through both sides of the bus, if not they will be on the floor of the bus or embedded somewhere in it, easy to find.

Looking at the video the big window didnt even look like it had been penetrated by the projectile, it looked bad because it shattered due to the vibrations and flexing of the bus, whatever it was it was a stupid act.

 

Bus side windows are made with toughened safety glass, it is designed to craze on impact. In some circumstances it can continue intact for a short while but we are talking about Sheffield roads so maybe a few yards.

Modern lightweight buses are now using thinner glass as a weight saving measure so they break more easily than the older ones. BB guns are used frequently against buses with this type of outcome. There was a spell a while ago when ROCKS were being thrown at buses in Barnsley, it ended when a passenger was hit on the head and injured. The local press got hold of it via the operator (First) and names were given followed by arrests. After the event Stagecoach also claimed to have had passengers injured but were not able to back it up with passenger names or witnesses, nor had they done anything about the alleged incidents. Looked like they just wanted their names in the papers.

[ANGELFIRE1]

Keep repeating yourself and keep quoting kinetic energy figures that are totally pointless to this thread, nobody cares about your .270 Winchester no matter how many times you keep telling us about it, the fact is I have seen low powered bb pistols shatter car windows with ease, specially the first shot, although a second in quick succession will obviously see the power drop off, thats all I'm saying dear.

The damage to the bus windows was just as likely to be pebbles, they act in a similar fashion to steel bb's and can be thrown by the handful using very little force and will easily cause that sort of damage, unless it was someone hidden in the bushes with a .270 Mannlicher.

 

You just cannot educate some people. Steyr Mannlicher, yup had one of them back in the day but if memory serves .308 calibre. Try again, just getting into my stride.

 

Angel1.