Far-right Britain First fosters ties with Zionist movement

[Halibut]

The KKK are in the USA, I have not met any neo Nazis despite knowing plenty of people with right wing views in my 56 years of being a white British male living in Sheffield, even when going to football matches up and down the country for 40 years, as for racists they are everywhere and they are all creeds, colours and religions yet you only see the ones you choose to see don't you ?

Don't preach history to me fella, your not that tuned in yourself, now tell me how much of this intolerance and hatred you have actually witnessed, without exaggerating if you can, so don't just go and read the bloody Guardian or the Socialist Worker. Now you and your ilk like to tell us that we have a problem with right wing extremists in the UK, so I will ask you how many there are compared to say Islamic extremists ..... got any answers ?

 

 

Right wing extremists reported to the Governments anti terror unit have risen sharply in the last year - thirty percent as it happens.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/finsbury-park-attack-far-right-extremist-rise-year-statistics-prevent-terrorism-scheme-referrals-a7798231.html

 

Does this concern you at all?

[hackey lad]

Right wing extremists reported to the Governments anti terror unit have risen sharply in the last year - thirty percent as it happens.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/finsbury-park-attack-far-right-extremist-rise-year-statistics-prevent-terrorism-scheme-referrals-a7798231.html

 

Does this concern you at all?

 

any response to post 75 or your insinuations in post 70 ?

[Jonny5]

Right wing extremists reported to the Governments anti terror unit have risen sharply in the last year - thirty percent as it happens.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/finsbury-park-attack-far-right-extremist-rise-year-statistics-prevent-terrorism-scheme-referrals-a7798231.html

 

Does this concern you at all?

It's inevitable that there will be a spike when people are driving vans into holiday makers; hacking them with machetes and blowing up nail bombs amidst teenage girls at a pop concert.

 

I'm much more concerned with what is driving young men to do things like that rather than Dave and Gary deciding they don't like "P"%$#s"

[blake]

the article suggests that there is "new links between far-right anti-Muslim group Britain First and the pro-Israel movement", but doesn't actually put forward any evidence at all that there is. All it does is claim that the Nazi Besser attended and picketed a pro-Palestine demo in London, and that there was also a Zionist person there at the same demonstration, who they name as a Mr. Hoffman.

 

of course they don't do anything such as provide a photograph of the two together (the one that they do feature in the article is from two years ago and the alleged Zionist they mention in the article, the Mr Hoffman, is nowhere to be seen). The article doesn't even provide any evidence that the two of them, the 'bad Nazi' Mr Besser, and the 'bad Zionist', the Mr. Hoffman, have ever actually met, or spoken.

 

it's scurrilous, nonsensical, two-bit made-up propaganda piece even by the already very low standards of electronintafada.com.

 

this very silly electronicintifada.com article would be rather funny if people hadn't appeared to have taken it seriously, like they seem to have done so here.

 

a lying piece of misrepresenting two-bit propaganda the electronicintifada.com article may be. But it has at least given another two-bit propagandist, WestTinsley, the opportunity to spread numerous falsehoods, and downright lies about the Israel-Palestine issue on a public forum.

 

---------- Post added 07-09-2017 at 08:50 ----------

 

the Zionist orgs in usa and UK and tell aviv are directly funding far right groups such as bf edl ukip and bnp nf and others..

 

WestTinsley has taken it upon himself to use the opportunity of this silly, misrepresentative electronicintidada.com article to spread numerous outright lies, falsehoods, and misconceptions on this forum concerning the Israel-Palestine issue (and this is not the first time), and he's managed a great many of them in only a few posts.

 

but this is the worst one out of all of them.

 

as has been mentioned by Jeffrey Shaw, Zionism is in origin a predominately LEFT WING, not a right wing nationalist movement at all, and there is no way that even right wing Zionists would do anything at all to support obviously antisemite groups such as the ones mentioned.

 

for sure, the far-right groups in Europe appear to have, on the surface, to have shed their former blatant Jew-hating antisemitism and some of them have even begun making noises praising Israel which they would never have done before. But make no mistake. Israelis and Zionists of all sides of the political spectrum aren't fooled and they are perfectly well aware that Jew-hating antisemites is what they remain. They wouldn't give racist antisemite groups like Britain First or the BNP fifty agorot or half a shekel in any circumstances.

 

---------- Post added 07-09-2017 at 09:54 ----------

 

Random?

FWIW there is a sizeable Armenian community that has been part of Palestinian population for a long long time. Equally, like all the many sections of the Palestinian population they have suffered under miltary occupation, forced displacement, loss of land/property, ethnic cleansing and Apartheid and Racist laws of the Zionist occupation..

 

is this a joke? How many times have you visited Israel? How many Armenian Israelis - or Armenian Palestinians, because some of them have Israeli nationality, and some of them haven't - have you met?

 

the ones who ended up on the Israeli side of the line and who were outside the old city and the West Bank in 1948 are today predominately non-Arab Israeli citizens with equal rights under the law to any other Israeli. The ones who ended up on the Arab side of the 1949 Armistice Line, predominately took up Jordanian nationality. But being non-Arabs, their status in today's PA, and totally unlike that in Israel where nearly all of them are full Israeli citizens, is unclear. The Armenians who ended up on the Arab side of the so-called 'Green Line', have much less rights than the ones who ended up and who continue to live as Israeli citizens on the Israeli side. Nearly all of the 700 or so Armenians in east Jerusalem are at least official residents of Jerusalem (like many Arabs are), and many of them have also applied to be Israeli citizens, again like many Arabs have, and sometimes - believe it or not - the citizenship applications they make are successful.

 

WestTinsley, I'd be absolutely delighted if you could provide any evidence of 'miltary occupation, forced displacement, loss of land/property, ethnic cleansing and Apartheid and Racist laws of the Zionist occupation' relating to the small Armenian community in Israel but I'm afraid that you won't be able to provide any for the simple reason that it never happened.

 

Israel's Armenian community has spread out through Israel these days and the small Armenian community of about 700 people (about 10% of the total of Armenians in Israel) in the old city of Jerusalem is still there, concentrated in the Armenian quarter that bears their name. The plaque commemorating the Armenian Genocide is still there on the wall bang right opposite the Jaffa Gate and visible almost as soon as you walk in.

Edited September 7, 2017 by blake

[WestTinsley]

 

is this a joke?[ ...?...]How many times have you visited Israel? How many Armenian Israelis - or Armenian Palestinians, because some of them have Israeli nationality, and some of them haven't - have you met?

 

the ones who ended up on the Israeli side of the line and who were outside the old city and the West Bank in 1948 are today predominately non-Arab Israeli citizens with equal rights under the law to any other Israeli. The ones who ended up on the Arab side of the 1949 Armistice Line, predominately took up Jordanian nationality. But being non-Arabs, their status in today's PA, and totally unlike that in Israel where nearly all of them are full Israeli citizens, is unclear. The Armenians who ended up on the Arab side of the so-called 'Green Line', have much less rights than the ones who ended up and who continue to live as Israeli citizens on the Israeli side. Nearly all of the 700 or so Armenians in east Jerusalem are at least official residents of Jerusalem (like many Arabs are), and many of them have also applied to be Israeli citizens, again like many Arabs have, and sometimes - believe it or not - the citizenship applications they make are successful.

 

WestTinsley, I'd be absolutely delighted if you could provide any evidence of 'miltary occupation, forced displacement, loss of land/property, ethnic cleansing and Apartheid and Racist laws of the Zionist occupation' relating to the small Armenian community in Israel but I'm afraid that you won't be able to provide any for the simple reason that it never happened.

 

Israel's Armenian community has spread out through Israel these days and the small Armenian community of about 700 people (about 10% of the total of Armenians in Israel) in the old city of Jerusalem is still there, concentrated in the Armenian quarter that bears their name. The plaque commemorating the Armenian Genocide is still there on the wall bang right opposite the Jaffa Gate and visible almost as soon as you walk in.

When I read delusional nonsense like what youve written, it's like proving the facts that smoking damages your health to a propagandist of the tobacco industry.. you'll spout delusionary indoctrinated nonsense till the cows come home.

Be nice to prove your assertions with links ..

As some one who knows many Palestinians Armenians quite well I find it disgraceful that you'd use their predicament.. most have been forced to leave Palestine fyi and many are under threats from the Isreali occupation and settlers as we speak in occupied Jerusalem.

[blake]

many Armenians have emigrated from the West Bank true - some to Armenia, a country with which Israel enjoys excellent diplomatic relations, but mostly to the United States. But that's not because of anything the Israelis have done. It's because being a Christian - which Armenians are - in the West Bank is no fun at all. Armenians have simply been a small part of the recent wave of mass emigration of Christians from the West Bank.

 

meanwhile, in Israel itself and totally unlike in the West Bank, the numbers of Armenians hasn't decreased at all. They're mostly Israeli citizens, and if they are not Israeli citizens, then they are least totally legal Israeli residents.

 

may I ask, just where, exactly, did you meet the Armenians that you claim to know 'quite well' ????

 

I used to live right on top of the Armenian Quarter in East Jerusalem, and incidentally, your use of the phrase 'Armenian Palestinian' is the first time I've ever heard that phrase. But then you would be unlikely to hear the phrase 'Armenian Israeli' either. They're Armenians. Some of them residing in Israel, have Israeli nationality or residency, and some of them, the ones who have been emigrating en masse out of the West Bank, haven't.

[WestTinsley]

 

 

may I ask, just where, exactly, did you meet the Armenians that you claim to know 'quite well' ????

I used to live right on top of the Armenian Quarter in East Jerusalem, and incidentally, your use of the phrase 'Armenian Palestinian' is the first time I've ever heard that phrase. But then you would be unlikely to hear the phrase 'Armenian Israeli' either. They're Armenians. Some of them residing in Israel, have Israeli nationality or residency, and some of them, the ones who have been emigrating en masse out of the West Bank, haven't.

The first you ever heard that phrase??

The bloody Palestinian ambassador to uk is a Palestinian Armenian. Syriacs and Armenians in Jerusalem that you seem to talk for are Palestinian it's a nationality ... isreal is an illegal occupation, thats why thousands of Palestinians have been forced to leave since 1948 1967 and on since.

Youll get more 'sense' out of far right edl bigot or a flat earth advocate than you would the usual delusional rabid racist Zionist...

[blake]

while I am pleased to see that a non-Arab, in this case a Christian Armenian, has achieved a fairly prominent Palestinian Authority diplomatic position just like many Arabs have in Israeli politics, I would find it very difficult to believe that there are many, if any more for the simple reason that compared to the number of Armenians residing in east Jerusalem and the West Bank the number of Armenians residing in Israel is much greater. There's about only about 700 Armenians in east Jerusalem's tiny Armenian quarter, the smallest of the 4 quarters, who are probably counted in both the Israeli and Arab figures. I'm not sure how many Armenians there are in the West Bank, because of course the PA don't keep accurate figures but it's certainly going be a LOT LESS than the 10,000 Armenians who live in Israel. Al Jazeera claims that there around 4,500 Armenians in the West Bank now, which I would think is probably an overestimate. I'd be surprised if there is much more than half that. Al-Jazeera says it's down to 4,500 from 15,000 in 1948 which mirrors the massive decline in the numbers of other Christians in the West Bank when at the same time, the number of other (Muslim) Palestinians in the West Bank has not declined at all, but has in fact quadrupled, or increased, massively, by 400% (genocide, anyone?).And unlike Armenians in the West Bank, Christian Armenians in Israel, although at only 10,000 there aren't that many of them, aren't declining in number. Armenians in Israel, whether they are Israeli citizens or just residents, appear to be in fact flourishing. Armenians aren't Arabs. But they are part of Israel's Christian community of which 80%, are Arabs. Christians in Israel, although they are only 2% of all Israelis, have among the highest income levels and educational attainments of any group in the country including I think every Jewish group, except Ashkenhazis. By contrast being a non-Arab, and also a Christian Armenian in the increasingly authoritarian and Muslim majority West Bank is not going to be much fun, but it is of course going to be a lot better than being a non-Arab Christian Armenian in Gaza where the numbers are going to be not much more if any more at all, than zero.

Edited September 7, 2017 by blake

[Michael_W]

Right wing extremists reported to the Governments anti terror unit have risen sharply in the last year - thirty percent as it happens.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/finsbury-park-attack-far-right-extremist-rise-year-statistics-prevent-terrorism-scheme-referrals-a7798231.html

 

Does this concern you at all?

 

Clearly not as much as it does you, I reckon when it bothers the likes of me we will genuinely have a problem.

My honest belief is that right wing extremism, as I have said previously, tends to be greatly exaggerated here in the UK, it suits the left wingers to call anyone with right wing views extremists, racists, bigots, xenophobes, Islamophobes etc etc, so as to silence them and their opinions, it happens on here quite often.

The few genuine fascist/Neo Nazi extremist elements are usually very quickly found out, particularly white British ones like those recently from the banned group National Action.

Why do you think there has been an increase this last year particularly, in what are generally described by the media as 'right wing extremists' and how extreme are these 'right wing extremists' ?

In numerical terms I would argue there are probably more active Islamic extremists in the UK than right wing extremists', recent terrorist incidents in Manchester and London would seem to back up that view.

The general hypocrisy surrounding these age old left and right arguments is that the left are quick to label any 'right wingers' as 'extremists' and then argue the wrongs of people labelling followers of a certain religion as 'terrorists', do you not see that ?

[Halibut]

Clearly not as much as it does you, I reckon when it bothers the likes of me we will genuinely have a problem.

My honest belief is that right wing extremism, as I have said previously, tends to be greatly exaggerated here in the UK, it suits the left wingers to call anyone with right wing views extremists, racists, bigots, xenophobes, Islamophobes etc etc, so as to silence them and their opinions, it happens on here quite often.

The few genuine fascist/Neo Nazi extremist elements are usually very quickly found out, particularly white British ones like those recently from the banned group National Action.

Why do you think there has been an increase this last year particularly, in what are generally described by the media as 'right wing extremists' and how extreme are these 'right wing extremists' ?

In numerical terms I would argue there are probably more active Islamic extremists in the UK than right wing extremists', recent terrorist incidents in Manchester and London would seem to back up that view.

The general hypocrisy surrounding these age old left and right arguments is that the left are quick to label any 'right wingers' as 'extremists' and then argue the wrongs of people labelling followers of a certain religion as 'terrorists', do you not see that ?

 

Are you claiming that the figures showing large rises in hare crime directed at Muslims, Jews, and others are false?

 

Or are you saying you don't think they're perpetrated by people with ring wing sympathies?