Stocksbridge bus service. Why so dire?

[Michael_N]

Why would you want to get the 57 in to town? I was forced to recently due to having my dog with me and it was awful and took about 100 years to get there.

 

Getting the SL and the tram is much better and quicker.

 

Probably because it's a direct service and not sure where you travel to and from, but looking at the timetables provided both the SL/Supertram and 57 should take around the same journey time. However the 57 has the advantage of been a through service and no worries about the tram pulling away as the bus pulls in at Middlewood like what generally happens.

 

It's a shame that we have seen the 57 (and old 58) services been downgraded so much. Once a very busy and popular service with First, until Stagecoach muscled in and created the SL. Now it seems like it was a case of them biting too much off than they can chew, given the downgrades to the 57 and complete withdrawal of the 58.

[Hook]

Probably because it's a direct service and not sure where you travel to and from, but looking at the timetables provided both the SL/Supertram and 57 should take around the same journey time. However the 57 has the advantage of been a through service and no worries about the tram pulling away as the bus pulls in at Middlewood like what generally happens.

 

It's a shame that we have seen the 57 (and old 58) services been downgraded so much. Once a very busy and popular service with First, until Stagecoach muscled in and created the SL. Now it seems like it was a case of them biting too much off than they can chew, given the downgrades to the 57 and complete withdrawal of the 58.

 

Or they created a much more popular service that people now use instead of the 57/58 and so the need for them has reduced?

[nohands]

Or they created a much more popular service that people now use instead of the 57/58 and so the need for them has reduced?

 

OK, so comparing the "much more popular service" now compared with the situation before Stagecoach came along in 2007, there are now fewer buses between Stocksbridge and Sheffield in peak hours, slightly more (7v5) in the off peak and fewer in the evening and Sundays. Added to this, journey times have increased due to the interchange penalty at Middlewood and when there is disruption on the tram the SL service has difficulty.

[1295galaxy]

Stagecoach as also changed the 265 buses from Barnsley to Sheffield,to the Number 2 and no early bus service to get people to work now,got a email reply from Stagecoach saying they cut the service because not enough people catching the early buses

[Hook]

Stagecoach as also changed the 265 buses from Barnsley to Sheffield,to the Number 2 and no early bus service to get people to work now,got a email reply from Stagecoach saying they cut the service because not enough people catching the early buses

 

This is what happens when public transport is run on a commercial basis with no subsidy. The government have cut the money available to SYPTE and whether we like it or not Stagecoach, First st al are in it for the profits.

[BigAl1]

Excellent news.

 

Stagecoach bus are trying to co-ordinate the tram link so that buses and trams connect and passengers no longer watch their connection pulling out and will hold bus when tram approaching (unfortunately they have to rely on a visual sighting as supertram can not as yet tell them when the tram will arrive)

 

Now the bad news!

 

StagecoachSupertram is not interested and are happy for their trams to leave a minute early but refuse to hold tram even when the arriving bus is clearly visible. They delight in leaving the passengers to wait

 

Please support Stagecoach bus as they try and put the link into Supertramlink and tell Stagecoach Supertram what you think of them (for those not aware Stagecoach bus and Stagecoach tram are separate companies)

[Annie Bynnol]

Excellent news.

 

Stagecoach bus are trying to co-ordinate the tram link so that buses and trams connect and passengers no longer watch their connection pulling out and will hold bus when tram approaching (unfortunately they have to rely on a visual sighting as supertram can not as yet tell them when the tram will arrive)

 

Now the bad news!

 

StagecoachSupertram is not interested and are happy for their trams to leave a minute early but refuse to hold tram even when the arriving bus is clearly visible. They delight in leaving the passengers to wait

 

Please support Stagecoach bus as they try and put the link into Supertramlink and tell Stagecoach Supertram what you think of them (for those not aware Stagecoach bus and Stagecoach tram are separate companies)

 

 

Unless a delay is built in to the tram timetable then the trams have to run to timetable. A bus appearing on Middlewood road at departure time would cause a delay of up to 5 minutes. This would have a knock on effect on other tram routes over a long period and the travel plans of far more.

 

As of January there will be an increase in journey times particularly on the Middlewood route. This allows some slack but will disappear when the extra trams on the red route to Rotherham Parkgate start.

 

Stagecoach Bus, Stagecoach Supertram, Virgin East Coast (90%), East Midlands Trains (inc our station) are all part of Stagecoach Group plc.

[BigAl1]

I am sorry but there is no excuse for the tram departing in full view of a bus load of passengers. No one is talking about a delay of five minutes I have many times seen the people actually getting of the bus with the tram refusing to open it's doors and pulling away.

 

There is slack already in the timetable.

 

thank you for the lesson on corporate structure I am fully aware of the Stagecoach structure the point is that Stagecoach bus and Stagecoach tram have completely different management and use this to justify the often broken link

[Annie Bynnol]

I am sorry but there is no excuse for the tram departing in full view of a bus load of passengers. No one is talking about a delay of five minutes I have many times seen the people actually getting of the bus with the tram refusing to open it's doors and pulling away.

 

There is slack already in the timetable.

 

thank you for the lesson on corporate structure I am fully aware of the Stagecoach structure the point is that Stagecoach bus and Stagecoach tram have completely different management and use this to justify the often broken link

 

Departure times for the tram are critical as they must arrive and depart the congestion critical bit between Shalesmoor, Cathedral and Park Square roundabout junction on time as it has the potential to impact on all three (four next year) routes. The Red route trams will have a critical appointment with the Signal Box operating the railway.

One event can magnify problems across the system delaying thousands.

 

The bus has no critical impact on other routes.

 

The buses are timed to arrive at Middlewood around 7 minutes before the departure of the tram.

 

Scenarios

Bus on time. Tram on time. A 6 minute wait in the tram.

Bus 2 minutes early. Previous Tram leaves leaves on time. Annoys bus users but they will not be late. All later tram users on time.

Bus arrives late. Tram departs on time. All later tram users on time. Bus users annoyed complain to Stagecoach Bus/SYPTE.

If the Tram is running late it must leave ASAP to meet its slot in the centre. Bus users annoyed because they think its their connection going early but they wont be late.

 

Some important reasons for having trams is capacity, relability and punctuality over that of buses which are far more flexible. All the trams are more punctual because all keep to the timetable and all can move freely through the city centre. This principle applies to all types of traffic flow. Introduce flexibility and the flow descends into chaos across the whole system. Imagine what would happen to the London Underground if the trains had to wait for connections.

 

Now if the tram driver closes the doors as passengers are boarding, even if there is a beeping warning, that is a very different safety related matter and the complaint could be escaleted to RAIB.

[pushtotalk]

Absolutely spot on Annie Bynnol.

 

If the tram driver starts the signal sequence, missing that to allow a bus to connect can easily add 4 to 5 minutes delay by which time the next tram is likely waiting to enter the platform anyway. The impact of waiting for the SL on the wider tram network is greater than that felt by a smaller number of SL users. Many times it’s also a case of SL customers missing the tram they were never meant to connect with anyway. Or the SL misses its connection because of crazy traffic coming down from Oughtibridge.

 

As you rightly say, no excuse for doors to be closed on people if the connection between bus and tram has started!

 

Slightly puzzled as to how amnicoll knows there is slack in the timetable. I’m pretty sure it’s largely unchanged since the early 00’s so doubt most journey times are achievable anymore and my conversations with Supertram and their staff would strongly suggest there is zero slack in the current timetable. Think I’m inclined to believe them over someone on a forum.