How do Sheffield road planners get it so wrong?

[Cyclone]

If you have 100 cars queuing in two lanes the tailback will obviously longer than having 100 cars queuing in three lanes , hence shorter queuing time.

 

more road capacity means less tailbacks.

 

Its hardly rocket science.

 

Wow.

Where do you think the 3 lanes terminate or go to?

You'd have to upgrade the capacity of the junctions and the destination roads that a feeder road was leading too for your 'logic' to actually be logical.

 

---------- Post added 28-09-2017 at 08:03 ----------

 

Are you for real? You seriously believe that increasing the demand and limiting the supply of something makes it cheaper?

 

The price of the parking in the city isn't controlled by supply and demand so much as it's just set by the council (at least the car parks they own and the on street parking).

 

---------- Post added 28-09-2017 at 08:05 ----------

 

Fair enough but that's one instance. There are many, many commutes in this city, generally those into the centre from the suburbs which could very easily be made on public transport.

 

It doesn't take much of a reduction in traffic volumes to allow the rest to flow much more easily.

 

It's 2 examples, multiple instances.

And people will tell you the same story over and over. Public transport is often simply not suitable for the journeys people make. Or at least would only work if they sacrifice an amount of time, even taking congestion into account.

 

---------- Post added 28-09-2017 at 08:06 ----------

 

Fewer parking spaces and making them more difficult to drive to , increases demand

 

Have the council removed some parking?

[Tony56]

Being new to Sheffield I am amazed at the amount of roundabouts and traffic lights. As for the state of the roads, there seems to be little need for speed humps

[alchresearch]

Wow.

Where do you think the 3 lanes terminate or go to?

You'd have to upgrade the capacity of the junctions and the destination roads that a feeder road was leading too for your 'logic' to actually be logical.

Have the council removed some parking?

 

Not necessarily. Motorways have more lanes and not necessarily any upgrades to roundabouts.

 

Or take a look at the Mosborough bypass here:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3738814,-1.4060707,3a,60y,154.16h,87.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC8BBggtpNwgH7n6SqXf_Yw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Two lanes merging into one. They haven't upgraded the capacity of the destination roads, but having two lanes means that there's less chance of a single line of cars streaming back onto the roundabouts and blocking it.

[Planner1]

Fewer parking spaces and making them more difficult to drive to , increases demand

 

Reducing the number of spaces does increase the level of demand for the remaining ones, but there is actually an excess of parking in Sheffield City Centre. I'm told the multi-storey operators aren't making money on them, because there is a lack of demand for short stay parking, which is what they make their money on.

 

The Council only control a couple of thousand spaces (on and off street) out of well over ten thousand in total. Generally the only reason spaces are removed is for development to take place. Occasionally they get removed for traffic management reasons. They are never removed to increase demand or justify price increases (there hasn't been any increase in the Council's city centre prices since April 2013) .

 

Making a parking space difficult to get to will not increase demand for it. It will reduce demand for it as people will park somewhere else that is easier to get to.

[Bargepole23]

Wow.

Where do you think the 3 lanes terminate or go to?

You'd have to upgrade the capacity of the junctions and the destination roads that a feeder road was leading too for your 'logic' to actually be logical.

 

---------- Post added 28-09-2017 at 08:03 ----------

 

 

The price of the parking in the city isn't controlled by supply and demand so much as it's just set by the council (at least the car parks they own and the on street parking).

 

---------- Post added 28-09-2017 at 08:05 ----------

 

 

It's 2 examples, multiple instances.

And people will tell you the same story over and over. Public transport is often simply not suitable for the journeys people make. Or at least would only work if they sacrifice an amount of time, even taking congestion into account.

 

---------- Post added 28-09-2017 at 08:06 ----------

 

 

Have the council removed some parking?

 

And yet public transport is perfectly suitable for the journeys some people make, yet they choose not to use it.

 

Just because it's not suitable for every journey, doesn't make it unsuitable for all journeys.

 

Use it when it's suitable, don't when it's not. Or walk. Or bike.

 

Walking and biking isn't appropriate for every journey, but it is for some.

[Cyclone]

And yet public transport is perfectly suitable for the journeys some people make, yet they choose not to use it.

 

Just because it's not suitable for every journey, doesn't make it unsuitable for all journeys.

 

Use it when it's suitable, don't when it's not. Or walk. Or bike.

 

Walking and biking isn't appropriate for every journey, but it is for some.

 

We were talking originally though about the council approach to 'encouraging' public transport use. Which isn't to improve public transport in any way, or to make it more attractive, but is instead just to make life more difficult for drivers. They only know how to use the stick, they can't understand the carrot.

 

---------- Post added 28-09-2017 at 12:00 ----------

 

60% of all car journeys are under 2 miles.

If those people just walked or cycled we would save millions each year just in the ambulances not having to respond to so many poor drivers crashing

 

2 miles is, even for a fast walker 30 minutes.

Or 5 mins in the car.

 

So you can entirely see why I'm about to take the car to go to a shop that is <2 miles away. It's because I don't have a spare hour to walk there and back. I have 1 hr for lunch, want to spend 20 mins in the shop, call at Tescos (also l<2 miles away) for a loaf of bread, and still have time to eat a sandwich before 1300.

 

It's not just whether a journey could be done by an alternative means, it's whether it can be done effectively and efficiently by an alternative.

[Planner1]

We were talking originally though about the council approach to 'encouraging' public transport use. Which isn't to improve public transport in any way, or to make it more attractive, but is instead just to make life more difficult for drivers. They only know how to use the stick, they can't understand the carrot.

 

 

That really is absolute nonsense.

 

The Council (in partnership with the PTE) has for many years been spending millions of pounds every year on improving bus routes across the city. That means lots of physical measures to improve bus journey times and improving the infrastructure at bus stops. They also have in place traffic control systems again costing millions, to give buses and trams priority at traffic signals, again to improve journey times and punctuality.

 

A lot of the improvements they do on the routes actually helps all drivers by reducing hold ups and removing blockages, so to suggest they do nothing to improve public transport and do it all by inconveniencing drivers is absolutely untrue.

[hackey lad]

There are loads of parking spaces in town. For example, q park on arundel gate easily accessible from the ring road. Q park near ponds forge, just off park square roundabout. That large brown car park just off the moor opposite the fire station, loads of surface parking round sheffield hallam uni. Many many others.

 

Which of these do you not know how to reach from Hackenthorpe?

 

im not talking about myself but about visitors and tourists on whom the city economy depends

[Cyclone]

That really is absolute nonsense.

 

The Council (in partnership with the PTE) has for many years been spending millions of pounds every year on improving bus routes across the city. That means lots of physical measures to improve bus journey times and improving the infrastructure at bus stops. They also have in place traffic control systems again costing millions, to give buses and trams priority at traffic signals, again to improve journey times and punctuality.

 

A lot of the improvements they do on the routes actually helps all drivers by reducing hold ups and removing blockages, so to suggest they do nothing to improve public transport and do it all by inconveniencing drivers is absolutely untrue.

 

I think a lot of people who see these "improvements" in action would disagree with you about how effective they are.

 

---------- Post added 28-09-2017 at 22:40 ----------

 

im not talking about myself but about visitors and tourists on whom the city economy depends

 

So how has the council been reducing parking?

[Planner1]

im not talking about myself but about visitors and tourists on whom the city economy depends

 

There are big direction signs to car parks and light up variable message signs showing numbers of spaces available. It's pretty simple to find parking in the city centre.