How do Sheffield road planners get it so wrong?

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Andy1976

...Public transport needs to be reasonably priced if it is to compete.

 

and for the purposes of travelling around/into sheffield, it is reasonably priced.

 

i can get a bus right into the centre of sheffield for a couple of quid - about the same as parking, but without the faff of driving/parking.

 

and that's just the price of a single-trip, buy a multi-day ticket and the price comes down further.

 

i'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. Lots of people use public transport (P-T), surely it's in your interests that they continue to use the bus/tram/etc? In the great rainbow of life there's clearly a tipping point where people decide to either drive or get the bus. If we could nudge the factors* that help people decide, just a little bit in favour of P-T, thousands of cars would be left at home.

 

conversely, nudge those factors in favour of private cars, and thousands of people will join you in the bad traffic.

 

(*free wifi, cheaper fares, security cameras, electronic displays at bus-stops, muilt-trip tickets, etc)

 

the solution to bad traffic isn't more cars and more driving.

[sgtkate]

and for the purposes of travelling around/into sheffield, it is reasonably priced.

 

i can get a bus right into the centre of sheffield for a couple of quid - about the same as parking, but without the faff of driving/parking.

 

and that's just the price of a single-trip, buy a multi-day ticket and the price comes down further.

 

i'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. Lots of people use public transport (P-T), surely it's in your interests that they continue to use the bus/tram/etc? In the great rainbow of life there's clearly a tipping point where people decide to either drive or get the bus. If we could nudge the factors* that help people decide, just a little bit in favour of P-T, thousands of cars would be left at home.

 

conversely, nudge those factors in favour of private cars, and thousands of people will join you in the bad traffic.

 

(*free wifi, cheaper fares, security cameras, electronic displays at bus-stops, muilt-trip tickets, etc)

 

the solution to bad traffic isn't more cars and more driving.

 

To be honest, I really think that self-driving cars are the solution in the medium term. Ultimately a car takes me from door to door at a time of my choosing, and yes that's laziness, of course it is, but it's what drives most car owners decisions. However, if I could call up a taxi at a similar price as a bus with a chance I'd have to wait 5 mins for it and share it with others but it still goes door to door with some detours to pick up/drop off other passengers then I'd ditch my car instantly. Perhaps I'm asking for the impossible, but I don't think so. With modern tech planning that kind of automated system would be very simple.

[Cyclone]

and for the purposes of travelling around/into sheffield, it is reasonably priced.

 

i can get a bus right into the centre of sheffield for a couple of quid - about the same as parking, but without the faff of driving/parking.

A couple of quid, you must be quite close to start with.

 

Without the faff of parking is correct, but instead it takes most of your lifetime for the journey, instead of 20 minutes, and you get wet waiting at the bus stop in the rain for the bus that doesn't show up.

 

i'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. Lots of people use public transport (P-T), surely it's in your interests that they continue to use the bus/tram/etc? In the great rainbow of life there's clearly a tipping point where people decide to either drive or get the bus. If we could nudge the factors* that help people decide, just a little bit in favour of P-T, thousands of cars would be left at home.

 

conversely, nudge those factors in favour of private cars, and thousands of people will join you in the bad traffic.

 

(*free wifi, cheaper fares, security cameras, electronic displays at bus-stops, muilt-trip tickets, etc)

 

the solution to bad traffic isn't more cars and more driving.

 

The nudging is correct, but the council only nudge by punishing drivers.

[Andy1976]

and for the purposes of travelling around/into sheffield, it is reasonably priced.

...

 

 

the solution to bad traffic isn't more cars and more driving.

 

But you've not read my posts clearly.

 

Travel on the two buses I need to take to school would be at least £4 for me. Assuming my wife stopped en route (still two buses), it's £3, and it's £1.60 (two lots of 80p) for a child on two buses.

 

Return would be about the same, so over £15 for a day's bus travel. I don't call that good value for what, in my experience, is appalling customer service, poor timekeeping and significant inconvenience.

 

(Yes, I know they do day savers, so potentially, two of those at £4 each, plus the £3.20 for child, so still over £11).

 

My car does about 35mpg in town (so will use less than a fiver a day), I don't pay for parking and I get comfort and convenience. It's not really a thinker is it.

 

The solution to bad traffic may not be more cars, but it's certainly not public transport, unless you change it dramatically, to the point that it's unrecognisable from what it is today.

[Beau Nidle]

With what would you replace University roundabout, and what would the impact on surrounding roads be?

 

The thing which chokes up the city with traffic is the volume of traffic. Just like every other city on the planet.

 

If you're so concerned about pollution, stop using the car where practicable.

 

The dual carriageway that runs up to University roundabout was, at the planning stage, intended to go underground with the tram tracks as they are now, but the idea was scrapped as too costly. What cost now? Rarely, if ever, do these things become cheaper as time passes. 20/20 Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

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Andy1976

 

But you've not read my posts clearly.

 

i tried, you seem to be suggesting that because public transport can't support your own individual transport requirements, we should consider it irrelevant and un-worthy of investment.

 

many thousands of people in sheffield already choose the 'not-car' option for their transport requirements. which is really very reassuring.

 

and, speaking as a regular driver, hugely appreciated.

Edited October 6, 2017 by ads36

[stifflersmom]

But you've not read my posts clearly.

 

Travel on the two buses I need to take to school would be at least £4 for me. Assuming my wife stopped en route (still two buses), it's £3, and it's £1.60 (two lots of 80p) for a child on two buses.

 

Return would be about the same, so over £15 for a day's bus travel. I don't call that good value for what, in my experience, is appalling customer service, poor timekeeping and significant inconvenience.

 

(Yes, I know they do day savers, so potentially, two of those at £4 each, plus the £3.20 for child, so still over £11).

 

My car does about 35mpg in town (so will use less than a fiver a day), I don't pay for parking and I get comfort and convenience. It's not really a thinker is it.

 

The solution to bad traffic may not be more cars, but it's certainly not public transport, unless you change it dramatically, to the point that it's unrecognisable from what it is today.

 

The shift from private to public transport is not really targetted to you; you make a lot of valid points aboiut journey complexity and cost but the key one is that you have two adults in your car for the journey. If you look at the majority of commuters they are single occupancy vehicles - these are the contributors to congestion that public transport should target.

[Andy1976]

i tried, you seem to be suggesting that because public transport can't support your own individual transport requirements, we should consider it irrelevant and un-worthy of investment.

 

many thousands of people in sheffield already choose the 'not-car' option for their transport requirements. which is really very reassuring.

 

and, speaking as a regular driver, hugely appreciated.

 

And again:-

 

It isn't just me. It's thousands of people for whom public transport doesn't work, hence the traffic. If it were just me that it didn't work for, the roads would be far less full.

 

Further, the investment question - the investment required would make any discussion on that suggestion a moot point entirely. It would be vast beyond any possibility of it happening, as it would require subsidising fares to make them realistic, vast changes to routes to incorporate areas and links not currently served, changing the vehicles to make them suitable and many other things. It's simply not viable, in this economic climate or any other.

 

The investment required to make the bus a viable (and importantly, preferable) option to the car is prohibitive to the point that it's a discussion of no worth in honesty.

[ads36]

public transport *is* viable. as demonstrated by the people choosing to use it.

 

or, maybe you're right, they're all wrong, and should start driving.

 

why is it, that private transport needs ever more money throwing at it, but public transport needs to make a profit?

 

(a wider, rhetorical question)

[Andy1976]

public transport *is* viable. as demonstrated by the people choosing to use it.

 

or, maybe you're right, they're all wrong, and should start driving.

 

why is it, that private transport needs ever more money throwing at it, but public transport needs to make a profit?

 

(a wider, rhetorical question)

 

Sentence two isn't helpful.

 

If it were as viable as you suggest, people would choose it over their cars. I suggest they don't, as is demonstrated by the number of motorists clogging the roads.

 

By viable, I include the fact that it needs to be a viable preference for people. If you want to remove traffic by getting people onto public transport, there needs to be a reason and incentive. There isn't, therefore it isn't viable.

 

I've not mentioned profit at all - I'm talking about the issue of the thread, being the volume of traffic, and the suggestion that public transport is the way to reduce that. My point remains - it has to be viable and desirable. It isn't.

 

As for the people choosing to use it - there's a lot of people who can't drive you know.