Its all kicking off in Catalonia

[Bob Arctor]

The EU has no interest in defending the fundamental human rights of EU citizens. It's muted response to what has happened, and is still happening in Spain, demonstrates this.

 

Yet the EU will criticise non-EU countries for human rights abuses, such as Turkey and various African states.

 

---------- Post added 02-10-2017 at 14:04 ----------

 

Catalonia has shown us the true face of centralised EU policing.

 

Smash the EU - by any means necessary.

 

It's not EU-specific, it's politicians in general. Look at the Kurds, they want their own independent state and Turkey, Iraq, the US, Russia and just about every government is opposed to it and will likely use violence to stop it. It's the same the world over. The only people you can rely on to consistently support the right to self-determination are anarchists and other libertarians.

[apelike]

 

Ask the 'leave' Catalunyans if they want to leave the EU? No, they don't. Ask the same of the 'leave UK' Scots and they too will say they don't.

 

But can Catalonia still remain part of the EU if they gain independence? Can Scotland still remain part of the EU if they gain independence? I would have though, as in my other post, that when gaining independence they would then have to apply to be an EU member in their own right. Or does it not work like that?

[Bob Arctor]

But can Catalonia still remain part of the EU if they gain independence? Can Scotland still remain part of the EU if they gain independence? I would have though, as in my other post, that when gaining independence they would have to apply to be an EU member in their own right. Or does it not work like that?

 

I think it does work like that. Obviously it would be up to an independent Catalonia if they wanted to apply, which would be their democratic choice (if they were allowed one)

[I1L2T3]

But can Catalonia still remain part of the EU if they gain independence? Can Scotland still remain part of the EU if they gain independence? I would have though, as in my other post, that when gaining independence they would then have to apply to be an EU member in their own right. Or does it not work like that?

 

Interesting questions. Read an article at the weekend that suggested UK could leave the EU but NI could remain in the single market. If that kind of arrangement is ok for NI similar could be applied to Catalonia

[L00b]

But can Catalonia still remain part of the EU if they gain independence? Can Scotland still remain part of the EU if they gain independence? I would have though, as in my other post, that when gaining independence they would then have to apply to be an EU member in their own right. Or does it not work like that?

It does work like that. But little more than a formality, subject of course to legislative compatibility (and any political shenanigans by Roya/Spain, of course): like Scotland, they've long been part of the EU and developed western economies, so there isn't that much socio-economic levelling to do (relative to the ex-Eastern Bloc newer members). I daresay Scotland and Catalunya would be in better shape than Greece and the newest EE states, so I wouldn't see their "re"-accession taking long at all, particularly to maintain trading levels with other EU members. Edited October 2, 2017 by L00b

[The Joker]

It's not EU-specific, it's politicians in general. Look at the Kurds, they want their own independent state and Turkey, Iraq, the US, Russia and just about every government is opposed to it and will likely use violence to stop it.

 

that’s gonna be interesting . . . and by that I mean it has the potential to be another bloody regional conflict.

 

The Kurds are fighting ISIS/ISIL with the support of the US, but I expect the Kurds will be demanding their own state in return

[WestTinsley]

that’s gonna be interesting . . . and by that I mean it has the potential to be another bloody regional conflict.

 

The Kurds are fighting ISIS/ISIL with the support of the US, but I expect the Kurds will be demanding their own state in return

Where? ..In America?;-/

[Ontarian1981]

Why do people who do not want to be part of a nation but are happy to seek their own path under the banner of the EU remain part of that nation?

 

Plenty of regions in the EU that would prefer self-governance in a federal Europe, Scotland for one, NI is getting pretty close to achieving it already.

 

Another Belgium perhaps, the Catalonian thing that is? Ironically that is the EU head office location so that merger of the Flemish-French and Dutch worked out OK, I guess.

[phil752]

The sooner the EU integrates the better, when it does than states can divide into sensible regions rather then remain hung up on traditional but impractical national constructions.

 

guess the black-shirted body protected state police would be controlled from Brussels then.

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2017 at 02:04 ----------

 

How can the will of the people be illegal?

 

do you think, if Yorkshire had a similar vote the outcome from London centric government would be any different?

[Ridgewalk]

Cohesive in terms of a powerful regional identity, language and culture. That the Spanish police and militia will have just converted into a powerful sense of nationhood

 

---------- Post added 02-10-2017 at 09:11 ----------

 

 

Let's see how they respond. This could be manna from heaven for Brexiteers.

 

Depending on the response from the core I might start feeling a bit Brexity again myself.

 

One thing for certain: any negotiation over Gibraltar has just been killed off.

 

 

 

 

 

Valencia and it’s hinterland are also considered historic Catalonia, from what i’ve read there doesn’t seem to be much appetite for independence there, if anything they appear to be emotionally and economically tied to Madrid and upset with those seeking indépendance in the Barcelona region.

I believe that Valencia has the third or fourth biggest population in Spain.

So not all that cohesive then ?

 

There does seem to be a lot of romanticism abroad at the moment.

Flag waving and identity politics don’t do it for me i’m afraid and leave me cold

 

0n the other hand I agree with you that those heavy handed brutalist tactics will be counter-productive

I get a lot of my information from French sources living close as I do to French Catalonia.

May not be important to you personally but what would happen to Barcelona fc, the iconic brand from Catalonia, if they were to leave Spain ?

For the record I’m not pro or anti independence for Catalonia,it’s not my business, so not going to get all faut emotionally involved with it.

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2017 at 05:08 ----------

 

How can the will of the people be illegal?

 

Until last Sunday only 45% of the population of Catalonia wanted to leave Spain but as is the norm the most strident, loudest and most vocal eg “ Vote Leavers” get all the attention and then naive people assume that it’s “ the will of the people”. More to the point they believe it themselves.

Before UKIPER’s and Brexiteers jump on me I agree we did have a Referendum in UK and we should abide by the outcome