Its all kicking off in Catalonia

[Bob Arctor]

that’s gonna be interesting . . . and by that I mean it has the potential to be another bloody regional conflict.

 

The Kurds are fighting ISIS/ISIL with the support of the US, but I expect the Kurds will be demanding their own state in return

 

They are demanding their own state. You would think that a secular, democratic state in which women are equal would be a good thing in a region characterised by insanely religious, despotic and misogynistic regimes that want to kill everyone else in the whole world, but the US seem determined to follow the "get them to help you then abandon them" path of failure they usually follow in the Middle East, guaranteed to make things worse.

[WestTinsley]

Valencia and it’s hinterland are also considered historic Catalonia, from what i’ve read there doesn’t seem to be much appetite for independence there, if anything they appear to be emotionally and economically tied to Madrid and upset with those seeking indépendance in the Barcelona region.

I believe that Valencia has the third or fourth biggest population in Spain.

So not all that cohesive then ?

 

There does seem to be a lot of romanticism abroad at the moment.

Flag waving and identity politics don’t do it for me i’m afraid and leave me cold

 

0n the other hand I agree with you that those heavy handed brutalist tactics will be counter-productive

I get a lot of my information from French sources living close as I do to French Catalonia.

May not be important to you personally but what would happen to Barcelona fc, the iconic brand from Catalonia, if they were to leave Spain ?

For the record I’m not pro or anti independence for Catalonia,it’s not my business, so not going to get all faut emotionally involved with it.

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2017 at 05:08 ----------

 

 

Until last Sunday only 45% of the population of Catalonia wanted to leave Spain but as is the norm the most strident, loudest and most vocal eg “ Vote Leavers” get all the attention and then naive people assume that it’s “ the will of the people”. More to the point they believe it themselves.

Before UKIPER’s and Brexiteers jump on me I agree we did have a Referendum in UK and we should abide by the outcome

You're really down playing it. There is a big history for Catalan Independence..

As for Valencia region same there..there was mass protests in Valencia.. to say less than half of Catalans are anti independence is far off ..youll be hard pressed finding one that is not pro Catalan Independence to some degree..more so than Scotland for instance ...

No doubt the Basques will be going for the inevitable independence referendum next..

[Harrystottle]

The Kurds are fighting ISIS/ISIL with the support of the US, but I expect the Kurds will be demanding their own state in return

 

They can demand away, but as long as NATO member Turkey says no, it won't happen. Turkey is strategically important to NATO and controls one on/off tap for illegal migration into Europe so has a strong hand to play.

[Ontarian1981]

Seems to be a worldwide phenom this break away from the parent Country thing. I guess Quebec is pretty much overdue for making waves again, here in Canada. It was a close one, the last referendum we had. They are something else, Quebec, they won't allow signage in English, yet the rest of Canada get French rammed down their throats at the grocery store and every level of government have to do everything in both English and French. A right crock of ****, in my view.

[Car Boot]

Depending on the response from the core I might start feeling a bit Brexity again myself.

 

The EU Commission - the Government of Europe which rules all member states - is composed of 28 unelected commissioners (who cannot and absolutely must not be held to account) and they have all decided to stay silent on the issue of EU citizens being attacked for asking for more democracy.

 

Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker (the only Commissioner personally elected by the European Parliament - but his was the only name on the ballot paper as dictated by the EU Commission) has not uttered a word.

 

Democracy is a very difficult issue for the EU, as it is hated and feared by the EU Commissioners.

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2017 at 16:24 ----------

 

Neither Spanish nor European - we are all now Catalunya.

[L00b]

Keep up with the ranting, Car Boot, someone is sure to agree with you soon!

[Ridgewalk]

You're really down playing it. There is a big history for Catalan Independence..

As for Valencia region same there..there was mass protests in Valencia.. to say less than half of Catalans are anti independence is far off ..youll be hard pressed finding one that is not pro Catalan Independence to some degree..more so than Scotland for instance ...

No doubt the Basques will be going for the inevitable independence referendum next..

 

Then I bow to your more intimate knowledge of the subject. I’ve no great interest in the matter just giving my opinion.

 

Things i’ve read have usually said that the “remain as part of Spain” camp have a small majority.

 

People who are quiet, reserved and keep their own counsel never get us much attention as noisy neighbours

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2017 at 16:28 ----------

 

Seems to be a worldwide phenom this break away from the parent Country thing. I guess Quebec is pretty much overdue for making waves again, here in Canada. It was a close one, the last referendum we had. They are something else, Quebec, they won't allow signage in English, yet the rest of Canada get French rammed down their throats at the grocery store and every level of government have to do everything in both English and French. A right crock of ****, in my view.

 

“Get French rammed down their throats”.

 

Quite ironic really when the few million French speakers in North America have hundreds of millions English speakers completely surrounding them.

Then again let’s focus on a minority group and select them as a target whilst pretending we’re the “oppressed “ population

[WestTinsley]

Valencia and it’s hinterland are also considered historic Catalonia, from what i’ve read there doesn’t seem to be much appetite for independence there, if anything they appear to be emotionally and economically tied to Madrid and upset with those seeking indépendance in the Barcelona region.

I believe that Valencia has the third or fourth biggest population in Spain.

So not all that cohesive then ?

 

There does seem to be a lot of romanticism abroad at the moment.

Flag waving and identity politics don’t do it for me i’m afraid and leave me cold

 

0n the other hand I agree with you that those heavy handed brutalist tactics will be counter-productive

I get a lot of my information from French sources living close as I do to French Catalonia.

May not be important to you personally but what would happen to Barcelona fc, the iconic brand from Catalonia, if they were to leave Spain ?

For the record I’m not pro or anti independence for Catalonia,it’s not my business, so not going to get all faut emotionally involved with it.

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2017 at 05:08 ----------

 

 

Until last Sunday only 45% of the population of Catalonia wanted to leave Spain but as is the norm the most strident, loudest and most vocal eg “ Vote Leavers” get all the attention and then naive people assume that it’s “ the will of the people”. More to the point they believe it themselves.

Before UKIPER’s and Brexiteers jump on me I agree we did have a Referendum in UK and we should abide by the outcome

No problem.. but the quiet ones are the worse ..remember Franco, Hitler, Mussolini...the quiet ones voted them in...

As for 45%.. Its more like 95%... even Catalunyan Valencia and the Balearics had pro Catalan demo's..

There's a big history in Catalan Independence just as other states in Europe will be going the same direction Basque country, Brittany, Corsica Other parts of France... and parts of Italy and Belgium etc..

Edited October 3, 2017 by WestTinsley

[melthebell]

Nationalism has a lot to answer for

[WestTinsley]

Nationalism has a lot to answer for

 

Yes let's get rid of the UK England and just be PR of South yorkshire.. or sheff..

No but really I think it's actually leading to a more localised governance than petty nationalisms.. or eu neo liberalisms(??)