Its all kicking off in Catalonia

[melthebell]

Yes let's get rid of the UK England and just be PR of South yorkshire.. or sheff..

No but really I think it's actually leading to a more localised governance than petty nationalisms.. or eu neo liberalisms(??)

it started with nationalism and were slowly being sucked back into the middle ages, we'll have lord of the manors in charge again if we dont watch out.

[apelike]

it started with nationalism and were slowly being sucked back into the middle ages, we'll have lord of the manors in charge again if we dont watch out.

 

Not so sure, I always believed in the "small is beautiful" principle. Making things too centralised and under one big umbrella is a mistake.

 

BTW It seems like the King will be addressing Spain's population about the issues tonight at 7:00 PM GMT

Edited October 3, 2017 by apelike

[I1L2T3]

Valencia and it’s hinterland are also considered historic Catalonia, from what i’ve read there doesn’t seem to be much appetite for independence there, if anything they appear to be emotionally and economically tied to Madrid and upset with those seeking indépendance in the Barcelona region.

I believe that Valencia has the third or fourth biggest population in Spain.

So not all that cohesive then ?

 

There does seem to be a lot of romanticism abroad at the moment.

Flag waving and identity politics don’t do it for me i’m afraid and leave me cold

 

0n the other hand I agree with you that those heavy handed brutalist tactics will be counter-productive

I get a lot of my information from French sources living close as I do to French Catalonia.

May not be important to you personally but what would happen to Barcelona fc, the iconic brand from Catalonia, if they were to leave Spain ?

For the record I’m not pro or anti independence for Catalonia,it’s not my business, so not going to get all faut emotionally involved with it.

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2017 at 05:08 ----------

 

 

Until last Sunday only 45% of the population of Catalonia wanted to leave Spain but as is the norm the most strident, loudest and most vocal eg “ Vote Leavers” get all the attention and then naive people assume that it’s “ the will of the people”. More to the point they believe it themselves.

Before UKIPER’s and Brexiteers jump on me I agree we did have a Referendum in UK and we should abide by the outcome

 

I'm not sure what you're arguing because nobody is claiming that Valencia wants to secede as well. You just invented that idea.

 

My argument is that Catalonia itself is cohesive as a region within Spain. Its links with French Catalan areas are strong too.

[Ontarian1981]

Then I bow to your more intimate knowledge of the subject. I’ve no great interest in the matter just giving my opinion.

 

Things i’ve read have usually said that the “remain as part of Spain” camp have a small majority.

 

People who are quiet, reserved and keep their own counsel never get us much attention as noisy neighbours

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2017 at 16:28 ----------

 

 

“Get French rammed down their throats”.

 

Quite ironic really when the few million French speakers in North America have hundreds of millions English speakers completely surrounding them.

Then again let’s focus on a minority group and select them as a target whilst pretending we’re the “oppressed “ population

 

Quebecers are the ones who want the limelight, oppressed my arse.

[The Joker]

They can demand away, but as long as NATO member Turkey says no, it won't happen. Turkey is strategically important to NATO and controls one on/off tap for illegal migration into Europe so has a strong hand to play.

 

Interesting viewpoint.

 

Does Turkey have that much influence over NATO, the US and Europe ?

 

I’m not sure they do, else they’d have already been made a member of the EU - which I remember Germanese Chancellor Mr Merkel was absolutely against.

 

I wonder if the US or NATO will pressure the EU to let Turkey join them, in return for the Turks assisting in the fight against ISIS / ISIL and to concede some territory for a Kurdish homeland

[Puggie]

Does Turkey have that much influence over NATO, the US and Europe ?

 

When it comes to Turkey money talks.

 

It's why we need a foreign aid budget.

[cgksheff]

A few numbers, just taken from Wikipedia, but probably close enough.

 

42% turnout

91% of voters for independence

That translates as 38% of the electorate of Catalonia.

 

In most elections, that's not bad.

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2017 at 21:59 ----------

 

Having reached this stage, they have to work on a change to the national constitution.

As that was arrived at involving a consensus after civil war, it is not as simple as it may seem at first.

Edited October 3, 2017 by cgksheff

[Ridgewalk]

I'm not sure what you're arguing because nobody is claiming that Valencia wants to secede as well. You just invented that idea.

 

My argument is that Catalonia itself is cohesive as a region within Spain. Its links with French Catalan areas are strong too.

 

 

 

Errr...... Valencia is in Catalonia !

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2017 at 22:12 ----------

 

Quebecers are the ones who want the limelight, oppressed my arse.

 

 

You’re not UK Dobby in disguise are you ?

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2017 at 22:19 ----------

 

I'm not sure what you're arguing because nobody is claiming that Valencia wants to secede as well. You just invented that idea.

 

My argument is that Catalonia itself is cohesive as a region within Spain. Its links with French Catalan areas are strong too.

 

 

 

You’re not sure what my points are ? But your first reply to me was very strident and indignant ? Accusing me of being a “ Brexiteer” ! Bizarrely

[WestTinsley]

I'm not sure what you're arguing because nobody is claiming that Valencia wants to secede as well. You just invented that idea.

 

.

There were mass pro Catalan Indy demos in Valencia city and province ..it's basically Southern Catalunya

 

Full Catalunya Map

http://statelessnations.eu/catalunya.html

Edited October 3, 2017 by WestTinsley

[tzijlstra]

The King ballsed up bad, this thing will escalate I reckon...