Mr Trump - All discussion here

[m williamson]

9 minutes ago, Vrsaljko said:

 

Because things are going great at the minute aren't they...

 

Trump says some spicy things and is a bit controversial, but people make out like he's some dictator who enjoys ethnic cleansing or something. It's hilarious how much people get worked up over him and the fact he lives in people's heads rent free.

 

How things are going at the minute is exactly why he's so dangerous. Things are volatile and complex and will require intelligence and diplomatic subtlety in order to avoid WW3.  

Trump isn't particularly intelligent, and is about a subtle as an avalanche of manure. 

 

I'm old enough to remember the Cold War and the Cuban Crisis as it happened.  It was resolved by the combined efforts, experience and intelligence of JFK and his team on one side and Khrushchev on the other. Both JFK and Khrushchev had seen action during WW2 and neither wanted to get their fellow citizens into another bloodbath, this time with nuclear bombs involved.

JFK stood up to his generals who wanted to use military force - a man with a hammer always thinks that hitting something is the answer - and I'm pretty sure something similar happened on the Russian side. Sanity prevailed and here we are talking about it. *

 

If Trump gets re-elected and takes America into an isolationist position he will have removed the major deterrent to Russian and Chinese expansion by aggression.

He is a danger to you and yours whether you can see that or not. Biden isn't the answer either in my view but at least he may listen to advice which Trump rarely does, narcissists know everything.

 

* If you want to get an idea as to what happened during the Cuban Crisis watch 'Thirteen Days' with Kevin Costner as White House advisor K. P. O Donnell which is a great film. 

[peak4]

A few links from my bookmarks folder, which I doubt will appeal to the converted, but may be of interest to those with a more open mind.

Why did he become so popular politically from a comparatively obscure background?
The Donald Trump I Saw on The Apprentice  The Slate
For 20 years, I couldn’t say what I watched the former president do on the set of the show that changed everything. Now I can.

The Apprentice was an instant success in another way too. It elevated Donald J. Trump from sleazy New York tabloid hustler to respectable household name.

In the show, he appeared to demonstrate impeccable business instincts and unparalleled wealth, even though his businesses had barely survived multiple bankruptcies and faced yet another when he was cast.

By carefully misleading viewers about Trump—his wealth, his stature, his character, and his intent—the competition reality show set about an American fraud that would balloon beyond its creators’ wildest imaginations.

British spies were first to spot Trump team's links with Russia  The Guardian
Exclusive: GCHQ is said to have alerted US agencies after becoming aware of contacts in 2015

Britain’s spy agencies played a crucial role in alerting their counterparts in Washington to contacts between members of Donald Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, the Guardian has been told.

GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.

I think the NHS has enough financing troubles at the moment; His claims are gibberish of course
Trump threatens to use US trade talks to force NHS to pay more for drugs  Telegraph via archive.ph

Mr Trump has claimed that the high costs faced by US patients are a direct result of other countries’ health services “freeloading” at America’s expense.
Alex Azar, the US Health and Human Services Secretary, has said Washington will use its muscle to push up drug prices abroad, to lower the cost paid by patients in the United States.

US wants access to NHS in post-Brexit deal, says Trump ally  Guardian
Before president’s visit, Woody Johnson says every area of UK economy up for discussion

The US will want business access to the NHS in any post-Brexit trade deal, the US ambassador has said, prompting anger from politicians and campaigners before Donald Trump’s state visit to the UK this week.

And lastly for now, a longish article referencing Umberto Eco; perhaps best known in the UK for "The Name of The Rose", but a regular writer on fascism.
The 14 ways below relate to his essay on post war fascism, which he labelled as Ur Fascism; this Open Culture article discusses Eco's points
Umberto Eco on Donald Trump: 14 Ways of Looking at a Fascist  Literary Hub

No synopsis or this last article, the whole thing is worth reading.

[trastrick]

4 hours ago, peak4 said:

A few links from my bookmarks folder, which I doubt will appeal to the converted, but may be of interest to those with a more open mind.

Why did he become so popular politically from a comparatively obscure background?
The Donald Trump I Saw on The Apprentice  The Slate
For 20 years, I couldn’t say what I watched the former president do on the set of the show that changed everything. Now I can.

The Apprentice was an instant success in another way too. It elevated Donald J. Trump from sleazy New York tabloid hustler to respectable household name.

In the show, he appeared to demonstrate impeccable business instincts and unparalleled wealth, even though his businesses had barely survived multiple bankruptcies and faced yet another when he was cast.

By carefully misleading viewers about Trump—his wealth, his stature, his character, and his intent—the competition reality show set about an American fraud that would balloon beyond its creators’ wildest imaginations.

British spies were first to spot Trump team's links with Russia  The Guardian
Exclusive: GCHQ is said to have alerted US agencies after becoming aware of contacts in 2015

Britain’s spy agencies played a crucial role in alerting their counterparts in Washington to contacts between members of Donald Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, the Guardian has been told.

GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.

I think the NHS has enough financing troubles at the moment; His claims are gibberish of course
Trump threatens to use US trade talks to force NHS to pay more for drugs  Telegraph via archive.ph

Mr Trump has claimed that the high costs faced by US patients are a direct result of other countries’ health services “freeloading” at America’s expense.
Alex Azar, the US Health and Human Services Secretary, has said Washington will use its muscle to push up drug prices abroad, to lower the cost paid by patients in the United States.

US wants access to NHS in post-Brexit deal, says Trump ally  Guardian
Before president’s visit, Woody Johnson says every area of UK economy up for discussion

The US will want business access to the NHS in any post-Brexit trade deal, the US ambassador has said, prompting anger from politicians and campaigners before Donald Trump’s state visit to the UK this week.

And lastly for now, a longish article referencing Umberto Eco; perhaps best known in the UK for "The Name of The Rose", but a regular writer on fascism.
The 14 ways below relate to his essay on post war fascism, which he labelled as Ur Fascism; this Open Culture article discusses Eco's points
Umberto Eco on Donald Trump: 14 Ways of Looking at a Fascist  Literary Hub

No synopsis or this last article, the whole thing is worth reading.

 

Another cannon load of assumptions, gossip and innuendo. served up by the ever reliable Guardian and summed up perfectly in the above passage:

 

"The Guardian
Exclusive:"

GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of "suspicious “interactions” between "figures"  "connected" to Trump and known "or suspected Russian agents", a "source" close to UK intelligence said. 

 

There you have a text book case of damning  guilt by inference, based on suspicions, unidentified figures, unidentified connections, suspected Russian agents, as related by anonymous sources. 🙂

 

So damning in fact that after 7  years of these "intelligence" agencies could not make a prosecutorial case out of it.

 

But it, was mainstream news notwithstanding, guaranteed to warm the hearts of the Trump hating cult!  Multiplied scores of times with MSM "bombshells" of peeing prostitutes, bribery schemes, Treachery. spying claims, obstruction claims, choking his Secret Service limo driver, rape claims

 

Impossible to prove, impossible to deny, and that's just how they like it! As Dan Rather the defrocked MSM king said years ago, when he was waving his forged Bush Jr AWOL document all over U.S. National News TV, when caught, " he may not have written it but we know it's just the sort of thing he would have written".

 

Doesn't matter if its true or not it's news if people are talking about, said another sage media TV news icon, Cokie Roberts, before her retirement.

 

A Media cabal of Jussie Smollets, who, if it didn't happen, will concoct a way to make it happen.

 

Same shared mindset!

 

After reading all this nonsense again, I'm off again into the real world.

 

See you at the next Trump funeral. Maybe!🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[trastrick]

On 02/06/2024 at 19:26, Longcol said:

Attacks by the Taliban intensified straight after the US withdrawal agreement. Remind me what Trump did...................

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States–Taliban_deal#:~:text=The Agreement for Bringing Peace,2001–2021 war in Afghanistan.

 

snipped

 

Oh, and one more thing, before I go.

 

Did your meticulous research into the ongoing civil war casualties between the Afghan Government and the Taliban reveal the number of U.S. Service men and women who were killed in Afghanistan after Trump's DOHA accord was signed?

 

The answer was virtually zero.

 

That is, until Biden got his shaky hands all over the deal!  🙂

 

 

[trastrick]

Oh, and another one more thing.

 

The effort to charge, convict and jail a former President is historic, unprecedented, and a grave Constitutional Crisis for the American People and the Republic.

 

You would think that prosecuting even one such a case, would require the best legal minds in the country.

 

(The outcome of the 2000 Election Supreme Court case, Gore vs Bush Election had arguably two of the best sets of constitutional lawyers on both sides ever assembled.)

 

It is telling that the concocted legal cases the States have assembled have been left to disposable corrupt partisan Democrat hacks D.A.s and Judges, who ain't going anywhere in the constitutional legal field. Fanni Willis?  Alvin Bragg? Leticia James?  🙂

 

No self respecting Constitutional Lawyer would touch such Trumped up concoctions. They will not be historically tied to these kangaroo courts in cases based on partisan prejudice, expired statutes of limitations and shaky legal reasoning that is being questioned by the most reputable legal minds on both sides of the political spectrum!

 

On the other hand if there was a genuine case to be made, the millionaire lawyers would be lined up three deep!

 

That said, I'll wish you all World Peace, low inflation, a prosperous economy, low energy prices, secure, safe borders and well managed legal immigration.

 

In other words, may you find a Trump!🙂

[ECCOnoob]

6 hours ago, trastrick said:

Oh, and another one more thing.

 

The effort to charge, convict and jail a former President is historic, unprecedented, and a grave Constitutional Crisis for the American People and the Republic.

 

You would think that prosecuting even one such a case, would require the best legal minds in the country.

 

(The outcome of the 2000 Election Supreme Court case, Gore vs Bush Election had arguably two of the best sets of constitutional lawyers on both sides ever assembled.)

 

It is telling that the concocted legal cases the States have assembled have been left to disposable corrupt partisan Democrat hacks D.A.s and Judges, who ain't going anywhere in the constitutional legal field. Fanni Willis?  Alvin Bragg? Leticia James?  🙂

 

No self respecting Constitutional Lawyer would touch such Trumped up concoctions. They will not be historically tied to these kangaroo courts in cases based on partisan prejudice, expired statutes of limitations and shaky legal reasoning that is being questioned by the most reputable legal minds on both sides of the political spectrum!

 

On the other hand if there was a genuine case to be made, the millionaire lawyers would be lined up three deep!

 

That said, I'll wish you all World Peace, low inflation, a prosperous economy, low energy prices, secure, safe borders and well managed legal immigration.

 

In other words, may you find a Trump!🙂

 

What a load of deluded bull.  Let's just turn that around for a moment.

 

If you believe that Trump had such a nailed on defence against these 'outrageous', 'fake', 'desperate' charges which were totally without merit.....  Then how come the finest advocates from the most prestigious and well-respected law firms were not queueing up to represent him. 

 

How come he has suffered so many losses and burned through so many lawyers with many refusing to touch him with a barge pole and others outright turning against him -  giving fuel to the prosecution.

 

How come in the trial of the century, the first ever criminal prosecution against a former president, the best he could do (despite all that supposed backing and support and millions in the bank) was some right-wing nut job glorified ambulance chaser to be his representative. 

 

Do you not get it. He's toxic. This is just a start.  34 separate convictions and numerous civil claim losses already on the book. 

[trastrick]

56 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

.....  Then how come the finest advocates from the most prestigious and well-respected law firms were not queueing up to represent him. 

 

How come he has suffered so many losses and burned through so many lawyers with many refusing to touch him with a barge pole and others outright turning against him -  giving fuel to the prosecution.

 

How come in the trial of the century, the first ever criminal prosecution against a former president, the best he could do (despite all that supposed backing and support and millions in the bank) was some right-wing nut job glorified ambulance chaser to be his representative. 

 

Just cleaning up here, lest I be accused of running away, back to the real World, without answering all non insulting genuine questions.

 

Since my opinions obviously carry no weight here, among the dedicated Trump haters, the answers may be found by applying Bayesian logic and  Occam's Razor analogies.

 

To whit:

 

After 7 years of prosecutions by 2 Democrat Administrations, using every legal and Government Intelligence  and Law Enforcement Agencies at their disposal,  the FACT remains that Trump is still a free man, and the leading contender in all National polls and online betting odds to be the next U.S. President.

 

His conviction and civil liability suits to date are still under Appeal and to are to be adjudicated at some future time.

 

It can therefore be argued that in the face of such legal persecution by all the legal resources available to  the most powerful Nation on Earth, his legal defense has been a resounding success, so far.

 

No one can predict the future, much as they would love it to lead to a outcome that satisfies their yearning for it to validate their own conformational bias. This political drama still has a long way to go before each side can be satisfied, if ever.

 

In an effort to understand the basic fundamentals of this dystopia, one has to consider the human condition, mob mentality, mass hysteria, and to do that I turn to my faithful friend, science.

 

I believe Einstein had it right, when he said;

 

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly".

 

He could be talking about Socrates, Galileo, to a lesser extent maybe even Elon Musk or Donald Trump.

 

All who dared challenge the status quo, the conventional wisdom of their times.

 

 

 

[m williamson]

Einstein also said " Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe. "

People have a habit of thinking that he was referring to others when he said that, but that's always debatable.

 

Einstein also said " Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value. "

Which of those do you think Trump went for?

 

 

[trastrick]

1 hour ago, m williamson said:

Einstein also said " Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe. "

People have a habit of thinking that he was referring to others when he said that, but that's always debatable.

 

Einstein also said " Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value. "

Which of those do you think Trump went for?

 

 

 

Einstein alway thought outside the conventional wisdom of the day. The great ones are rare.

 

But to your question:

 

Value, like respect, can only assigned to you by others It cannot be determined by oneself.

 

Trump has value to the citizens of his country. Perhaps the majority according to the polls.

 

While in office, he gave them Peace Through Strength, no new endless wars, Middle East Peace Accords, economic prosperity, low inflation, real wage growth, tax cuts, secure borders, low energy prices, a strong advocacy for school choice, and set record low unemployment figures for blacks, Asians, Latinos and women.

 

He's also the first President in modern Times who didn't get richer while in office. He actually lost money during his term of office.

 

I don't know about you, but the market for his efforts has great value to a large percentage of voters, again, possibly the majority.

[m williamson]

51 minutes ago, trastrick said:

 

Einstein alway thought outside the conventional wisdom of the day. The great ones are rare.

 

But to your question:

 

Value, like respect, can only assigned to you by others It cannot be determined by oneself.

 

Trump has value to the citizens of his country. Perhaps the majority according to the polls.

 

While in office, he gave them Peace Through Strength, no new endless wars, Middle East Peace Accords, economic prosperity, low inflation, real wage growth, tax cuts, secure borders, low energy prices, a strong advocacy for school choice, and set record low unemployment figures for blacks, Asians, Latinos and women.

 

He's also the first President in modern Times who didn't get richer while in office. He actually lost money during his term of office.

 

I don't know about you, but the market for his efforts has great value to a large percentage of voters, again, possibly the majority.

 

Trump inherited a strong expanding economy from Obama, it wasn't all his doing as he likes to claim. The fact is that he got some things right but more things wrong, as this list shows.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/01/18/trump-presidency-administration-biggest-impact-policy-analysis-451479

 

His return would be disastrous for its impact on European and Middle East peace hopes.

https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-second-term-presidency-united-states-tear-europe-eu-apart/

 

What I find difficult to understand is the ability of so many to ignore what an untrustworthy, obnoxious, immoral, blustering obscenity of a human  he is and still support him.

No one is perfect, but Trump is way beyond that, he is an appalling individual who's narcissism blinds him to anyone's needs but his own.

You can argue about whether some things he's been accused of are factual or made up to discredit him but certain things are undeniable and a matter of record.

He publicly mimicked and ridiculed a disabled man.  He insulted a war hero, despite having avoided service himself. He is a proven congenital unmitigated liar. Those things are indisputable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/16/politics/fact-check-dale-top-15-donald-trump-lies/index.html

 

And still some support him 🙄