Mr Trump - All discussion here

[RJRB]

I think that the case revolves around the purpose of the valuation.

I can value my house at whatever I like.

However if I then misuse my valuation to mislead someone else in a way to extract preferential loan rates then other factors come into play.

I have no idea how the financial institutions came to their own decisions .

Some due diligence must have been involved and possibly they agreed with the Trump valuations.

The world of finance can be a murky place ,such as mortgages being offered on self certification.

We shall see

[Magilla]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

As someone who has been in the business of determining and mitigating real values on behalf of governments and utility companies,  I was not surprised to see this in the news today.

Did you often give wildly different valuations for the same property, depending on who you're doing the valuation for?

 

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

I would say that The Financial Times is a credible source on these matters.

 

Any comment?

Sure... can you highlight the bit relevant to Trump's current woes... having two entirely seperate valuations for the same thing, depending on whether it's to be used as collateral for a loan, or declaring it for tax purposes?

 

If that "subjective" value isn't the same on all your declarations, that would appear to be a clear case of fraud

 

 

Are you sure you really understood what the article is saying? 🙄

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Magilla

[altus]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

"If there is space, add his important reminder that “estimated current values” are not the same as “fair value or market value”. Because never forget that valuing assets is an art not a science.

Estimating the size of properties however is science rather than art. Getting the value wrong by a factor of three for something you could take a tape measure to is far beyond any interpretation of reasonable error.

 

Similarly, valuing a golf course on the basis that you have the right to build 2500 luxury homes on the property despite only having permission to build 1500 holiday apartments is not reasonable.

[altus]

 

[altus]

As a follow up to my previous post:

 

Israel Said to Be Source of Secret Intelligence Trump Gave to Russians

 

Now, the secret intelligence referred to wasn't Israeli defence plans but it does make you wonder what else Trump might have passed to the Russians.

 

For anyone wondering why this is relevant, Russia relies on Iran to provide it with equipment to fight its war in Ukraine and Iran provides support to Hamas.

[trastrick]

16 hours ago, altus said:

 

For anyone wondering why this is relevant, Russia relies on Iran to provide it with equipment to fight its war in Ukraine and Iran provides support to Hamas.

Russia relies on Europe to purchase its Fossil Fuels, so it can finance its unholy war against Ukraine.

 

Iran, an ally of Russia,  relies on the U.S. for money to finance its terrorism, and support for a war against Israel.

 

Pretty soon the money that the West is sending to China to buy their batteries, windmills and solar power products, and cheap trainers and TVs may be used against Taiwan.

 

With pals like that, who needs enemies? 

 

Madness!

 

 

 

 

[trastrick]

21 hours ago, altus said:

Estimating the size of properties however is science rather than art. Getting the value wrong by a factor of three for something you could take a tape measure to is far beyond any interpretation of reasonable error.

 

Similarly, valuing a golf course on the basis that you have the right to build 2500 luxury homes on the property despite only having permission to build 1500 holiday apartments is not reasonable.

The first lesson I learned as a young man just going into that business, came from a very wise and successful developer.

 

When I was lecturing him on the value of an industrial site the government needed for a public project, he said, we are holding on to it until we get our candidates elected to politics, who will see the wisdom of rezoning it for mixed high density residential and commercial uses.

 

2 years later he was right! a simple stroke of a government pen!

 

An empty field on the edge of town, is just a cow pasture to some, but in the hands of a major developer, with a track record, who presents an artistic impression of a development including a hotel, restaurants, maybe a park, or even space for a school, to a cash strapped local government it can be irresistible to some local pols.

 

It has suddenly gained 'intellectual capital' and so have the surrounding lands, to the benefit of the locals (and perhaps to the charlatans who were privy to the confidential plans)

 

But they are willing to wait until a favorable council and local demographics make it viable. Try buying the that cow pasture from Holiday Inn at the cow pasture prices they paid 

 

It's a very complicated business!

 

Value is often in the mind and eye of the holder, like with Hunter's paint daubs

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by trastrick

[altus]

37 minutes ago, trastrick said:

The first lesson I learned as a young man just going into that business, came from a very wise and successful developer.

 

When I was lecturing him on the value of an industrial site the government needed for a public project, he said, we are holding on to it until we get our candidates elected to politics, who will see the wisdom of rezoning it for mixed high density residential and commercial uses.

 

2 years later he was right! a simple stroke of a government pen!

 

An empty field on the edge of town, is just a cow pasture to some, but in the hands of a major developer, with a track record, who presents an artistic impression of a development including a hotel, restaurants, maybe a park, or even space for a school, to a cash strapped local government it can be irresistible to some local pols.

 

It has suddenly gained 'intellectual capital' and so have the surrounding lands, to the benefit of the locals (and perhaps to the charlatans who were privy to the confidential plans)

 

But they are willing to wait until a favorable council and local demographics make it viable. Try buying the that cow pasture from Holiday Inn at the cow pasture prices they paid 

 

It's a very complicated business!

That's not the same thing as valuing assuming you already had the right to build. Compare the situation with valuing a plot of land that already has planning permission granted to build a hotel on it and valuing the same plot before planning permission was applied for.

[trastrick]

23 minutes ago, altus said:

That's not the same thing as valuing assuming you already had the right to build. Compare the situation with valuing a plot of land that already has planning permission granted to build a hotel on it and valuing the same plot before planning permission was applied for.

In that case you adjust the value according to likelihood of the plan to be successfully achieved, and the timeline.

 

A lender would heavily discount your business proposal, because you have no (like government departments) no demonstrated expertise in such matters.

 

Trump's proposal would likely sail through, because he is successfully building skyscraper hotels all over the world.

 

I'll make it simpler for you.

 

A lending institution's primary concern is investing in business opportunities that have the greatest likelihood of a profitable return for their shareholders.

 

Again, unlike government bureaucrats who are basically unaccountable for the success or failure of their programs.

 

Manana!

Edited October 9, 2023 by trastrick

[altus]

7 minutes ago, trastrick said:

In that case you adjust the value according to likelihood of the plan to be successfully achieved, and the timeline.

I put it to you that the sort of person who optimistically overestimates the size of their apartment by a factor of three might similarly optimistically overestimate the likelihood of being granted planning permission for 2500 luxury homes.