Rowdy hen parties and very sensitive women

[max]

Ok - what advantages for that unemployed, poor, uneducated white male are you talking about?

 

If he were to go for a job against a similarly placed woman, disabled person or a member of an ethnic minority then the likelihood is that he would be given preferential treatment. There may be individual cases people can point to where this was not the case but that is, generally, what white male privilege entails.

[Halibut]

Ok - what advantages for that unemployed, poor, uneducated white male are you talking about?

 

As he explained, they're better off compared to poor uneducated non white males and poor uneducated women both white and non-white.

[Guest makapaka]

If he were to go for a job against a similarly placed woman, disabled person or a member of an ethnic minority then the likelihood is that he would be given preferential treatment. There may be individual cases people can point to where this was not the case but that is, generally, what white male privilege entails.

 

We’ve already been through that - what if there are no jobs in the first place.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 12:54 ----------

 

As he explained, they're better off compared to poor uneducated non white males and poor uneducated women both white and non-white.

 

Can you give me some more examples of how they’re better off?

 

Bearing in mind the example of person we are talking about, and accepting your earlier point that this guy is less likely to sexually harassed.

 

Some more advantages this person is realising please?

[Michael_W]

Given that he died before the concept had been explored, no, I didn't.

Would it have been useful in a discussion with him, I doubt it.

Did he enjoy privilege compared to women of his generation, absolutely, compared to non-white males contemporaries, absolutely, compared to every other white male, well, no, but that's not what it means or is claimed.

 

Yes, being born in the UK gives people a huge advantage compared to people born in many other countries. And being born male is still an advantage on top of that, as is being white in the UK, having well paid parents is another advantage, having well educated parents is another advantage.

 

We all start from a different starting line in this race called life. The precise starting point being a combination of a huge number of factors, societal, genetic, positional, geographical. What we do from that point is up to us (well, in a broad sense it is). Acknowledging that we don't start on a level playing field isn't supposed to detract from the success of anyone though, just to make them reflect that where they came from isn't the same as where everyone else comes from.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 10:58 ----------

 

 

Denying that you have some privilege by being a white male in the UK is to deny reality. You might still be unemployed, still be poor, still be lacking education. But compared to a female or a non white person in an identical situation to the white male, you STILL have an advantage.

 

I fully understand what the definition of privilege is, I still believe the use of the word privilege is an annoying term and a massive generalisation, and generalisations are argued against by yourself and other hard-core socialist/feminist commenters on here frequently, I can accept of course that all of us tend to generalise when it suits

Questions :

Do you work in a mixed environment and do you know of women being treated unfairly in their pay or otherwise ?

Do you think the fact that women earn on average less than their male counterparts is because men are paid more for doing the same job or because they generally have jobs with better pay ?

Do you think our education system is biased towards girls ?

[Guest makapaka]

Here's a long and detailed explanation

 

https://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/explaining-white-privilege-to-a-broke-white-person-shesaid/

 

A few excerpts

 

 

 

So, that's a clear one, a white male is unlikely to be raped or sexually assaulted (unlikely compared to a female).

Also unlikely to face any kind of racial prejudice.

And so on.

 

Well here are some more excerpts from the article;

 

“I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.”

 

“When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization,” I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.”

 

“If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race.”

 

“I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.”

[Cyclone]

Err, yes, very good, you've demonstrated an ability to cut and paste, although not to use the [ quote ] tag.

 

So what?

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 13:08 ----------

 

I fully understand what the definition of privilege is, I still believe the use of the word privilege is an annoying term and a massive generalisation, and generalisations are argued against by yourself and other hard-core socialist/feminist commenters on here frequently, I can accept of course that all of us tend to generalise when it suits

Questions :

Do you work in a mixed environment and do you know of women being treated unfairly in their pay or otherwise ?

Do you think the fact that women earn on average less than their male counterparts is because men are paid more for doing the same job or because they generally have jobs with better pay ?

Do you think our education system is biased towards girls ?

 

I work in a mixed sex, race and nationality environment.

I am unaware of how much anyone else is paid, am not in a management position and in fact am self employed and so not actually part of the organisation that I currently work for.

The reasons behind why women are paid less has been extensively studied.

I don't think that our education system is biased to either gender, but society is and this causes lower numbers of girls to study STEM subjects.

[Guest makapaka]

Err, yes, very good, you've demonstrated an ability to cut and paste, although not to use the [ quote ] tag.

 

So what?

 

You didn’t seem too forthcoming with all the advantages faced by this unemployed, uneducated, poor person we were talking about.

 

You just linked an article from an American feminist as a response.

 

Are these the advantages you are talking about?

 

The post itself sort of supports my original point anyway - in that it says it is understandable that people get upset by being accused of privilege.

 

It still doesn’t give tangible examples of advantage though - as the above examples highlight.

 

Stocksbridge Park Steels are more privileged than the dog and duck FC on a football pitch - it doesn’t mean that they both wouldn’t get hammered away at Man City.

Edited October 29, 2017 by makapaka
fixed quote tags

[Cyclone]

I don't really know what you want.

Are you hoping that I say something is an advantage that you can then try to deny?

 

You appear to have made up your mind that being white or male isn't an advantage at all, despite being given numerous examples of how it is, and now you're just wasting my time.

[Guest makapaka]

I don't really know what you want.

Are you hoping that I say something is an advantage that you can then try to deny?

 

You appear to have made up your mind that being white or male isn't an advantage at all, despite being given numerous examples of how it is, and now you're just wasting my time.

 

Read post #143.

 

Also - have you got any examples or what?

 

Cos so far - based on your responses - we’re saying an unemployed, uneducated , poor white male - from a disadvantaged area ie an ex pit village sees this white male privilege in the form of avoiding the IRS (not hard in the UK) and reading about his races past historic achievements -and seeing white people in the papers (cos we don’t see any other races apparently).

 

The point being - stop telling everyone they’re privileged when they aren’t.

 

Your assuming certain things are privilege which large swathes of people see no tangible benefit from - a large group of white people earn a lot of money - saying someone on their backside is more privileged because they are white is like comparing shoes on homeless people.

[Michael_W]

Given that he died before the concept had been explored, no, I didn't.

Would it have been useful in a discussion with him, I doubt it.

Did he enjoy privilege compared to women of his generation, absolutely, compared to non-white males contemporaries, absolutely, compared to every other white male, well, no, but that's not what it means or is claimed.

 

Yes, being born in the UK gives people a huge advantage compared to people born in many other countries. And being born male is still an advantage on top of that, as is being white in the UK, having well paid parents is another advantage, having well educated parents is another advantage.

 

We all start from a different starting line in this race called life. The precise starting point being a combination of a huge number of factors, societal, genetic, positional, geographical. What we do from that point is up to us (well, in a broad sense it is). Acknowledging that we don't start on a level playing field isn't supposed to detract from the success of anyone though, just to make them reflect that where they came from isn't the same as where everyone else comes from.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 10:58 ----------

 

 

Denying that you have some privilege by being a white male in the UK is to deny reality. You might still be unemployed, still be poor, still be lacking education. But compared to a female or a non white person in an identical situation to the white male, you STILL have an advantage.

 

So you admit that equality is a totally misconceived concept and that the various differences in our backgrounds determine that more than any socialist/feminist ideology can correct it