Rowdy hen parties and very sensitive women

[SnailyBoy]

You’re right I misread that information.

 

Fair enough. There still appears to be a lot of work needed to fairly represent the ethnic demographic of the community in the Met

[Car Boot]

No, you're incorrect.

I do however think that white men suffer an extremely small level of prejudice when compared to women and other ethnic groups.

 

All prejudice causes suffering. What may be an "extremely small" level to you might be life destroying to someone else.

 

White male privilege does extend to all white males, proven and not disputed, except by you.

 

So-called 'white male priviledge' does not benefit or extend to a large section of the working class and underclass.

 

Just because some white males have a disproportional representation in positions of power in this society doesn't mean that all of the other white males (who are not in positions of power) share this advantage. So why must all the powerless, disadvantaged white males be punished with less rights and legalised state discrimination?

 

Did you know that disadvantaged white males are four times more likely to commit suicide than disadvantaged white females? Disadvantaged white males are TEN times more likely to commit suicide than ethnic minority females.

 

Poor white males are the victims. Yet they are being portrayed as if they have all the power and advantage. It's patently ridiculous. Do all white women share the same power and advantage as that enjoyed by the Queen? Of course not. It's a simplistic ideology that justifies hatred of a particular race and sex and appeals to the darker side of human nature.

 

Minority groups can certainly hold prejudiced opinions, but given that they lack authority and power this has little impact on the majority group to which white men belong.

 

I'm sure that the parents of male children murdered for no other reason than their white skin colour will agree with you that prejudice against the majority white group has little impact.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Car Boot

[Halibut]

All prejudice causes suffering.

 

Self evidently untrue.

 

 

So-called 'white male priviledge' does not benefit or extend to a large section of the working class and underclass.

 

Yes it does. You appear to be misunderstanding (wilfully or otherwise) what the term means. No has ever claimed that it somehow makes all men powerful, wealthy or fulfilled. In the case of working class and underclass white men, it means that being a white, poor, powerless man is still a better deal than being a woman or an ethnic minority poor, powerless person.

 

Just because some white males have a disproportional representation in positions of power in this society doesn't mean that all of the other white males (who are not in positions of power) share this advantage.

 

I don't recall any contributor to this thread ever claiming it did mean that. You're arguing against a position that no-one holds.

 

So why must all the powerless, disadvantaged white males be punished with less rights and legalised state discrimination?

 

Which rights have been taken away from white men?

 

What evidence have you got for the claim of legalised state discrimination?

(And don't refer back to the British Transport Police thing if you want to retain any credibility whatsoever!)

 

Did you know that disadvantaged white males are four times more likely to commit suicide than disadvantaged white females? Disadvantaged white males are TEN times more likely to commit suicide than ethnic minority females.

 

Those figures are not evidence that white male privilege doesn't exist.

 

Poor white males are the victims.

 

Victims of what?

 

Are you claiming that poor white men are more victimised that poor black men?

 

Yet they are being portrayed as if they have all the power and advantage.

 

I think you're exaggerating. White privilege doesn't imply that white men are all-powerful and have super easy lives. It implies that being a white man confers certain advantages over people who aren't.

 

 

It's patently ridiculous. Do all white women share the same power and advantage as that enjoyed by the Queen? Of course not.

 

Nobody but yourself has made this suggestion.

 

It's a simplistic ideology that justifies hatred of a particular race and sex and appeals to the darker side of human nature.

 

It's a commonly accepted idea with a massive body of evidence to support it.

 

 

I'm sure that the parents of male children murdered for no other reason than their white skin colour will agree with you that prejudice against the majority white group has little impact.

 

I still can't figure out why you only seem concerned with harms done to white people.

 

What sort of prejudice against the majority white group do you mean?

[Guest makapaka]

Self evidently untrue.

 

 

 

 

Yes it does. You appear to be misunderstanding (wilfully or otherwise) what the term means. No has ever claimed that it somehow makes all men powerful, wealthy or fulfilled. In the case of working class and underclass white men, it means that being a white, poor, powerless man is still a better deal than being a woman or an ethnic minority poor, powerless person.

 

 

 

I don't recall any contributor to this thread ever claiming it did mean that. You're arguing against a position that no-one holds.

 

 

 

Which rights have been taken away from white men?

 

What evidence have you got for the claim of legalised state discrimination?

(And don't refer back to the British Transport Police thing if you want to retain any credibility whatsoever!)

 

 

 

Those figures are not evidence that white male privilege doesn't exist.

 

 

 

Victims of what?

 

Are you claiming that poor white men are more victimised that poor black men?

 

 

 

I think you're exaggerating. White privilege doesn't imply that white men are all-powerful and have super easy lives. It implies that being a white man confers certain advantages over people who aren't.

 

 

 

 

Nobody but yourself has made this suggestion.

 

 

 

It's a commonly accepted idea with a massive body of evidence to support it.

 

 

 

 

I still can't figure out why you only seem concerned with harms done to white people.

 

What sort of prejudice against the majority white group do you mean?

 

To be fair even on the references you / cyclone have posted there are lots of counter arguments to the concept of white male privilege - some of which are broadly in line with posts on this thread.

 

You’re responses are that anyone else’s point of view is manifestly wrong - when really it’s a difference in opinion.

 

The Wikipedia page referenced by cyclone is pretty much underpinned by an individual feminist academic.

 

---------- Post added 01-11-2017 at 21:21 ----------

 

Self evidently untrue.

 

 

 

 

Yes it does. You appear to be misunderstanding (wilfully or otherwise) what the term means. No has ever claimed that it somehow makes all men powerful, wealthy or fulfilled. In the case of working class and underclass white men, it means that being a white, poor, powerless man is still a better deal than being a woman or an ethnic minority poor, powerless person.

 

 

 

I don't recall any contributor to this thread ever claiming it did mean that. You're arguing against a position that no-one holds.

 

 

 

Which rights have been taken away from white men?

 

What evidence have you got for the claim of legalised state discrimination?

(And don't refer back to the British Transport Police thing if you want to retain any credibility whatsoever!)

 

 

 

Those figures are not evidence that white male privilege doesn't exist.

 

 

 

Victims of what?

 

Are you claiming that poor white men are more victimised that poor black men?

 

 

 

I think you're exaggerating. White privilege doesn't imply that white men are all-powerful and have super easy lives. It implies that being a white man confers certain advantages over people who aren't.

 

 

 

 

Nobody but yourself has made this suggestion.

 

 

 

It's a commonly accepted idea with a massive body of evidence to support it.

 

 

 

 

I still can't figure out why you only seem concerned with harms done to white people.

 

What sort of prejudice against the majority white group do you mean?

 

To be fair even on the references you / cyclone have posted there are lots of counter arguments to the concept of white male privilege - some of which are broadly in line with posts on this thread.

 

Your responses are that anyone else’s point of view is manifestly wrong - when really it’s a difference in opinion.

[ENG601PM]

I suspect that you may be a closeted white power freak; the only bit of 'racism' you've publically acknowledged is one temporary situation where BTP were holding workshops encouraging non-white and female candidates to join the force.

 

You have repeated avoided commenting or even acknowledging that the police force is still an overwhelmingly white and male organisation.

 

This leads me to believe you perhaps only see racism as problematic when you perceive it to be directed against white people.

 

You have been asked repeatedly about your views on the white power movement and failed to do so.

 

Perhaps you could share your views now and prove me wrong?

 

That is only a problem if you are a racist. Your argument only marks out white police officers as racists, or you as a racist. Which one is it?

[Cyclone]

Multiple police forces have had a problem with institutional racism, which is directed not at white people, but at minorities. So whilst most individual officers are presumably not racist, some are.

And from a community perspective underrepresentation of minorities makes policing more difficult. This is precisely why they are attempting to increase the recruitment of those minorities in order to have a more representative force.

 

It's not "only a problem if you're racist", that's just an unwarranted personal attack.

 

---------- Post added 02-11-2017 at 09:50 ----------

 

To be fair even on the references you / cyclone have posted there are lots of counter arguments to the concept of white male privilege - some of which are broadly in line with posts on this thread.

 

You’re responses are that anyone else’s point of view is manifestly wrong - when really it’s a difference in opinion.

 

The Wikipedia page referenced by cyclone is pretty much underpinned by an individual feminist academic.

 

---------- Post added 01-11-2017 at 21:21 ----------

 

 

To be fair even on the references you / cyclone have posted there are lots of counter arguments to the concept of white male privilege - some of which are broadly in line with posts on this thread.

 

Your responses are that anyone else’s point of view is manifestly wrong - when really it’s a difference in opinion.

 

The only "counter arguments" I've seen have relied on misunderstanding or misrepresenting the concept we're talking about.

They tend to start with some ridiculous example like "well, dave is a poor unemployed white guy" as if that demonstrates that privilege doesn't exist.

 

---------- Post added 02-11-2017 at 09:56 ----------

 

All prejudice causes suffering. What may be an "extremely small" level to you might be life destroying to someone else.

Nobody has denied that prejudice is a bad thing.

The majority population in the UK, white people, are far less likely to be affected by prejudice than the minorities. Hence, privilege.

 

 

So-called 'white male priviledge' does not benefit or extend to a large section of the working class and underclass.

Already demonstrated to be untrue.

Less likely to suffer sexual assault than women, less likely to suffer prejudice than minorities.

Just because some white males have a disproportional representation in positions of power in this society doesn't mean that all of the other white males (who are not in positions of power) share this advantage. So why must all the powerless, disadvantaged white males be punished with less rights and legalised state discrimination?

Strawman.

 

Did you know that disadvantaged white males are four times more likely to commit suicide than disadvantaged white females? Disadvantaged white males are TEN times more likely to commit suicide than ethnic minority females.

Suicide is the largest cause of death for men between 20 and 49 full stop.

Nobody has claimed that all men have a wonderful life and enjoy the lifestyle of a roman emperor.

 

Poor white males are the victims. Yet they are being portrayed as if they have all the power and advantage.

No they aren't.

You (deliberately?) continue to fail to understand the concept we're talking about.

It's a simplistic ideology that justifies hatred of a particular race and sex and appeals to the darker side of human nature.

Nobody except you has suggested hating anyone or anything. You're just making things up in addition to not understanding what privilege is.

 

I'm sure that the parents of male children murdered for no other reason than their white skin colour will agree with you that prejudice against the majority white group has little impact.

 

Appeal to emotion, when you know that the facts are that white men suffer far less race related violence.

[ENG601PM]

Multiple police forces have had a problem with institutional racism, which is directed not at white people, but at minorities. So whilst most individual officers are presumably not racist, some are.

And from a community perspective underrepresentation of minorities makes policing more difficult. This is precisely why they are attempting to increase the recruitment of those minorities in order to have a more representative force.

Point us to a UK police force which is insitutionally racist instead of creating your own non sequitur of conflating the past with the present, and individual racism with organisational failure.

 

You are starting from the point that the police are racist because you have seen some statistics that you think apply to individuals not the group. The police force could be made up of people who all white or all BME or all LGBTIQA+ and not be biased but your reasoning assumes that a statistical differential implies something that is can not be extrapolated from the numbers.

 

Your starting assumption is wrong as is Halibut's and because you have started in the wrong place your entire outlook is biased. You give no agency to individuals because in actual fact you are probably racist. You are using the exact same thought process to justify your claim of not being racist without undestanding that you are in fact the one who groups people together by their superficial identity rather than their character. You demonstrate a racist approach so it is a fair question to ask if you are a racist. The question is a stark one and I know that you feel offended but your offence is misplaced until you understand that you are, in fact, fundementally racist, but in a different way to the people that you accuse of being racist. I afraid that you can't sit in the rosy glow of smug self satisfaction without being vulnerable to having somebody point out that you appear to be racist. Maybe you just haven't worked through your ideas yet so I'll cut you some slack. These forums can be good ways to work out your thoughts (I do it all the time) so I'll try not to jump to a conclusion too soon.

 

I hope that's clear. I literally could not care if you feel offended so long as you can explain why you think I am wrong. I don't recommend that you use statistics though since you've already shown that you either don't understand them, or egregiously misuse them. I'm unsure which it is at this point but I'm inclined towards the former which will offend you even more, so I'm sorry about that in advance. You see, I do actually care. I lied about that.

 

 

It's not "only a problem if you're racist", that's just an unwarranted personal attack.e.

 

It's an observation that Halibut is perfectly able to defend with some reason and logic. Until then I stand by the assertion that it is only a problem if you are racist.

 

You try hard to give the impression that you are a smart cookie so I'll leave the forum for a while so you can show us just how smart you are.

 

It just occured to me that you are probably Halibut too, in which case do you want me to address you as Cyclone or Halibut on this subject to avoid confusing everyone else as well as me?

Edited November 2, 2017 by ENG601PM

[Cyclone]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/05/met-chief-admits-institutional-racism-claims-have-some-justification

Met chief admits institutional racism claims have 'some justification'

 

I haven't claimed that individuals are racist, I said exactly the opposite.

 

I did say that police forces can work better with the community when they have a closer ethnic profile to the communities within which they work. A point you've apparently just ignored.

 

Your ad hom attacks won't distract anyone. I don't feel offended, I feel amused actually, as in, I'm laughing at you.

 

I have explained why you're wrong, you appear to have ignored parts of it (presumably inconvenient parts), made up other parts and then decided to attack me personally in an attempt to distract from what I said. It's okay, we've seen posters behave like this before. Eventually you'll get bored of it and leave the forum, or you'll be banned when your true colours are displayed.

 

The prime minister disagrees with you btw

May said policing by consent required representative police forces. “If police forces do not truly represent the people they serve, if they are not made up of men and women of all backgrounds, if they do not properly reflect the communities where local officers police, then we cannot truly say the police are the public and the public are the police.”

You're attempting to claim that anyone who suggests that police forces should be representative is actually racist themselves. Which appears to be a very illogical statement to me, or at least to require some very twisted logic to attempt to support.

 

Just a few months in and you want to accuse other forum members of being the same people. Feel free to report us both, the admins and mods know that we are different people.

Perhaps if you do want to report us they can also check out your previous username and see why you were banned?

[Guest makapaka]

Multiple police forces have had a problem with institutional racism, which is directed not at white people, but at minorities. So whilst most individual officers are presumably not racist, some are.

And from a community perspective underrepresentation of minorities makes policing more difficult. This is precisely why they are attempting to increase the recruitment of those minorities in order to have a more representative force.

 

It's not "only a problem if you're racist", that's just an unwarranted personal attack.

 

---------- Post added 02-11-2017 at 09:50 ----------

 

 

The only "counter arguments" I've seen have relied on misunderstanding or misrepresenting the concept we're talking about.

They tend to start with some ridiculous example like "well, dave is a poor unemployed white guy" as if that demonstrates that privilege doesn't exist.

 

---------- Post added 02-11-2017 at 09:56 ----------

 

Nobody has denied that prejudice is a bad thing.

The majority population in the UK, white people, are far less likely to be affected by prejudice than the minorities. Hence, privilege.

Already demonstrated to be untrue.

Less likely to suffer sexual assault than women, less likely to suffer prejudice than minorities.

Strawman.

Suicide is the largest cause of death for men between 20 and 49 full stop.

Nobody has claimed that all men have a wonderful life and enjoy the lifestyle of a roman emperor.

No they aren't.

You (deliberately?) continue to fail to understand the concept we're talking about.

Nobody except you has suggested hating anyone or anything. You're just making things up in addition to not understanding what privilege is.

 

Appeal to emotion, when you know that the facts are that white men suffer far less race related violence.

 

No - there are counter arguments on the Wikipedia page you quoted.

 

You can’t just broad brush them all. You wouldn’t have that from someone arguing he other way to be fair.

Edited November 2, 2017 by makapaka

[Cyclone]

Which ones do you particularly like, we can have a look at them.