Hashtag Me Too.

[hackey lad]

You've never tried, unsuccessfully, to chat a girl up in pub? Banter that could be construed now as harressment? I'm not entirely sure where the line is. Adam sandler was hammered on social media for putting a hand on someone's knee on graham nortons show.

 

Yes , that was absurd , people making out like he was grooming her as his next victim ( not saying he has any history ) . If every time I had touched a girls hand or arm or leg I was accused of assault , I would be in a prison cell now

[Olive]

Discussing it isn’t a bad thing - but everyone who can recall the event and person that was involved should prosecute now shouldn’t they?

 

Everyone that knows the person who harassed or assaulted them should go to the police - tonight.

 

A lot of bad behaviour isn't actually illegal though. And what about the incidents that take place, but the person on the receiving end has no idea who the perpetrator is?

 

I guess it's a valid response to just want to get it out in the open, even if there's no wish for, or point in any action taking place.

 

What if the main thing that people want is for attitudes to start changing?

 

So here's an example of mine.

Time of incident: on a regular basis, between approx 1992 and 1995.

Place of incident: very crowded pub in Broomhill area

Nature of incident: being groped whilst on regular glass-collecting forrays

 

It used to happen all the time, you'd have two armfulls of glasses, some twerp would make a grab for your nether regions, but it would be so crowded you'd have absolutely no clue who the heck it was. We just used to get on with it, what else could you do? Didn't stop you from feeling indignant and powerless though.

 

Mind you, that didn't used to hurt anything like as much as some of the things that some customers would say sometimes. Thankfully it didn't happen very often, and most customers were geat, but I really used to wonder if some had mothers, sisters or daughters and how they would react if someone treated them the same way they used to carry on.

 

Not illegal to be an objectionable misogynist, but really horrible to be on the recieving end.

[Halibut]

A lot of bad behaviour isn't actually illegal though. And what about the incidents that take place, but the person on the receiving end has no idea who the perpetrator is?

 

I guess it's a valid response to just want to get it out in the open, even if there's no wish for, or point in any action taking place.

 

What if the main thing that people want is for attitudes to start changing?

 

So here's an example of mine.

Time of incident: on a regular basis, between approx 1992 and 1995.

Place of incident: very crowded pub in Broomhill area

Nature of incident: being groped whilst on regular glass-collecting forrays

 

It used to happen all the time, you'd have two armfulls of glasses, some twerp would make a grab for your nether regions, but it would be so crowded you'd have absolutely no clue who the heck it was. We just used to get on with it, what else could you do? Didn't stop you from feeling indignant and powerless though.

 

Mind you, that didn't used to hurt anything like as much as some of the things that some customers would say sometimes. Thankfully it didn't happen very often, and most customers were geat, but I really used to wonder if some had mothers, sisters or daughters and how they would react if someone treated them the same way they used to carry on.

 

Not illegal to be an objectionable misogynist, but really horrible to be on the recieving end.

 

Great post Olive. I think the bit I emboldened seems to sum it up nicely; it's the bit that Makapaka and others don't seem to understand - they're too busy being threatened by the notion that men have a lot to answer for.

[Olive]

A charming person stops being charming when theyre pushy agressive or slimey but he might not get a word out if he's an overweight, middle aged mouth-breather. The mere appearance could feel invasive. David Beckham will get more latitude than an ugly duffer regardless of what he said .

 

Exactly! Like I said, some people can get away with things others can't. It's that old context chestnut again.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2017 at 22:32 ----------

 

Great post Olive. I think the bit I emboldened seems to sum it up nicely; it's the bit that Makapaka and others don't seem to understand - they're too busy being threatened by the notion that men have a lot to answer for.

 

Well cheers Halibut. I do think Makapaka is raising some good points though, especially about the validity of the Me Too thing. I hadn't really thought about it before he raised this, and the more I think about it, the more it seems like it's all about pent up emotions, and a call for change.

 

I worry that important issues can get swallowed up by trivia though, and an inevitable backlash. A bit like when people started getting worried if they should hold open doors for other people, in case it was sexist or something. In case anyone's wondering, it's not. Whoever goes through the door first, hold it open for whoever happens to be behind you.

 

---------- Post added 30-10-2017 at 22:45 ----------

 

I'd also like to say that I'm not comfortable with the way this issue might be perceived as a women versus men thing. In my experience, the vast majority of men wouldn't dream of behaving innapropriately. But unfortunately, many (most?) women you talk to will have experienced innapropriate behaviour of some sort. It only takes a few bad apples etc.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Olive

[Car Boot]

Great post Olive. I think the bit I emboldened seems to sum it up nicely; it's the bit that Makapaka and others don't seem to understand - they're too busy being threatened by the notion that men have a lot to answer for.

 

Which men is it that you believe have "a lot to answer for"?

 

Is it the ones directly responsible for sexual assault and violence towards women? Which is fair. Or do you mean ALL men - the innocent who have never harmed anybody included?

 

Perhaps in your distorted view of life there is no such thing as an innocent man? Are the innocent especially guilty in your eyes?

Edited October 30, 2017 by Car Boot

[medusa]

 

I'd also like to say that I'm not comfortable with the way this issue might be perceived as a women versus men thing. In my experience, the vast majority of men wouldn't dream of behaving innapropriately. But unfortunately, many (most?) women you talk to will have experienced innapropriate behaviour of some sort. It only takes a few bad apples etc.

 

IMHO this issue is not a women v men thing, it's a 'with power v lacking power' thing, but as you post, none of this should be to make the majority of people in ANY walk of life feel responsible. Sadly it appears that the power dynamic means that a proportion of people of any gender/race/age will attempt to coerce those whom the feel have no alternative into whatever sexual act, in the belief that they will get away with it because their chosen target/victim has no power. It just happens to be involving more men than women because there are so many more men in positions of power.

 

As far as I'm aware, the aim of the campaign was to try to highlight quite how prevalent misogyny, harassment, assault (from the low level of groping upwards) are, how virtually every woman meets them, it's just that we don't discuss it on a regular basis. I don't believe that there was any wish to demonise men, nor to produce a situation where every report led to a conviction.

 

Much of what has been reported would not result in a conviction anyway, but as a highlight of inappropriate behaviour, knowing that it's happening in quite so many workplaces should be shocking.

[Ridgewalk]

Great post Olive. I think the bit I emboldened seems to sum it up nicely; it's the bit that Makapaka and others don't seem to understand - they're too busy being threatened by the notion that men have a lot to answer for

 

You’re a shining example of someone who empathises and understands the social and psychological dynamics of power relationships and how they can be used to abuse people in certain contexts.

 

I hope you use your special understanding and empathic sensitivities on a day to day basis, you’re obviously a good role model

[Olive]

IMHO this issue is not a women v men thing, it's a 'with power v lacking power' thing, but as you post, none of this should be to make the majority of people in ANY walk of life feel responsible. Sadly it appears that the power dynamic means that a proportion of people of any gender/race/age will attempt to coerce those whom the feel have no alternative into whatever sexual act, in the belief that they will get away with it because their chosen target/victim has no power. It just happens to be involving more men than women because there are so many more men in positions of power.

 

As far as I'm aware, the aim of the campaign was to try to highlight quite how prevalent misogyny, harassment, assault (from the low level of groping upwards) are, how virtually every woman meets them, it's just that we don't discuss it on a regular basis. I don't believe that there was any wish to demonise men, nor to produce a situation where every report led to a conviction.

 

Much of what has been reported would not result in a conviction anyway, but as a highlight of inappropriate behaviour, knowing that it's happening in quite so many workplaces should be shocking.

 

I agree with all of that Medusa. I think there's also an element of catharsis invoved.

 

Sadly, there will be those that dismisss it as bandwagonism (not really a word, but you know what I mean!), when actually that's kind of thd point!

[sgtkate]

So presumably you think Anne Robinson is belittling women?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/30/anne-robinson-says-despair-fragile-modern-women-unable-deal/

 

Or is she right in suggesting her fellow women actually stand up for themselves and put men in their place so they understand that sort of behaviour is not acceptable?

 

She is right to a point but not all women or men for that matter feel that they are able to stand up to other men without terrible consequences. That's why the metoo thing is important as it helps give strength to people who are suffering in silence be seeing that nearly all their friends and family have been treated in a similar way and can perhaps now open up to them and get some help.

 

The metoo thing isn't about naming and shaming necessarily, it's about all people who have suffered and feel strong enough to put their stories out there supporting and offering a hand to those who have suffered in silence.

[ANGELFIRE1]

I suggest the OP and others ask themselves this - in whose interests is it to belittle, cast aspersions on and attempt to deny that most women have been subject to unwanted sexual behaviour from men?

 

Here you are, the opening line from my post, " Are ALL these cases really genuine, be they male or female, "

 

Maybe you should read more slowly and absorb the words written instead of jumping to your own conclusions. No offence to you intended.

 

Angel1.