Greed of the Super Rich, Lizzie in Trouble.

[tinfoilhat]

No one named in there papers have done anything wrong, broken no laws , done nothing illegal.

 

Why should anyone pay more tax than they have to ?

 

Tax avoidance is perfectly legal .

 

I dont blame any of them for using legal loopholes to avoid tax

 

Cling on to that thought when youre queing up in A&E with chest pains.

[ECCOnoob]

Surely those dealing in millions are easier to catch, and more worth while for the authorities.

 

"Catch" doing what? This is the whole point.

 

Three of the things listed that ordinary earners on PAYE income can choose to do are perfectly legal. Two of them are a lot more ethically and legally dodgy.

 

Just the same for millionaires.

 

Tax avoidance schemes, offshore investments, combined shareholdings, profit offsets are all LEGAL. Whereas deliberate fraud and evasion is illegal.

 

You cannot stop people doing LEGAL things. There is no court for MORAL issues.

 

Its irrelevant whether a tax avoider is earning earning £12,000 a year or £2m a year. If its LEGAL there is nothing anyone can do about and it should be nobody's business.

 

You want to change the world. You got to start with changing the laws.

 

Its no good screaming and shouting about millionaires acting legally whilst ignoring lower earners doing exactly the same thing on a smaller scale. Amounts involved should not come into it.

 

If you are going to criticise one set and make some sort of moralistic ruling over them its only equal that it should apply to the other set.

 

---------- Post added 06-11-2017 at 21:20 ----------

 

Cling on to that thought when youre queing up in A&E with chest pains.

 

Notwithstanding that most millionaires still pay multiple times into the public purse than any other earners they are the least likely to use an NHS hospital and will offset their burden even more by PAYING for their own private healthcare and hospital treatment.

 

What is your point exactly.

[tinfoilhat]

"Catch" doing what? This is the whole point.

 

Three of the things listed that ordinary earners on PAYE income can choose to do are perfectly legal. Two of them are a lot more ethically and legally dodgy.

 

Just the same for millionaires.

 

Tax avoidance schemes, offshore investments, combined shareholdings, profit offsets are all LEGAL. Whereas deliberate fraud and evasion is illegal.

 

You cannot stop people doing LEGAL things. There is no court for MORAL issues.

 

Its irrelevant whether a tax avoider is earning earning £12,000 a year or £2m a year. If its LEGAL there is nothing anyone can do about and it should be nobody's business.

 

You want to change the world. You got to start with changing the laws.

 

Its no good screaming and shouting about millionaires acting legally whilst ignoring lower earners doing exactly the same thing on a smaller scale. Amounts involved should not come into it.

 

If you are going to criticise one set and make some sort of moralistic ruling over them its only equal that it should apply to the other set.

 

---------- Post added 06-11-2017 at 21:20 ----------

 

 

Notwithstanding that most millionaires still pay multiple times into the public purse than any other earners they are the least likely to use an NHS hospital and will offset their burden even more by PAYING for their own private healthcare and hospital treatment.

 

What is your point exactly.

 

Its not that easy and you know it isnt. Someone on 12k a year wont be able to afford an army of lawyers and accountants to tie up, lets face it, under funded and under manned tax authorities - who may or may not be in the right. Vodafone if you recall set the stall out and said "we'll pay this much - take it or leave it". Tax authorities weighed up the cost of chasing more verses taking their well funded legal and account s dept. Mr 12k doesnt have that.

 

About this time last year (maybe the year before that) HMRC made a big fuss in front of a select committee on how they had X amount of people in their sights over tax avoidance - they failed to menantion that these werent blue chip companies - they were taxi drivers and stuff like that. It was on a channel 4 programme - how to pay less tax or something I think it was called.

 

Of course what Lewis Hamilton is legal - totally. But should it be? Your are a higher earner, possibly without a legal team to squirrel away every last dime - so youre paying more. Does that sit alright with you so Lewis multi millionaire Hamiliton can save a few quid on a private jet?

 

---------- Post added 06-11-2017 at 21:29 ----------

 

"Catch" doing what? This is the whole point.

 

Three of the things listed that ordinary earners on PAYE income can choose to do are perfectly legal. Two of them are a lot more ethically and legally dodgy.

 

Just the same for millionaires.

 

Tax avoidance schemes, offshore investments, combined shareholdings, profit offsets are all LEGAL. Whereas deliberate fraud and evasion is illegal.

 

You cannot stop people doing LEGAL things. There is no court for MORAL issues.

 

Its irrelevant whether a tax avoider is earning earning £12,000 a year or £2m a year. If its LEGAL there is nothing anyone can do about and it should be nobody's business.

 

You want to change the world. You got to start with changing the laws.

 

Its no good screaming and shouting about millionaires acting legally whilst ignoring lower earners doing exactly the same thing on a smaller scale. Amounts involved should not come into it.

 

If you are going to criticise one set and make some sort of moralistic ruling over them its only equal that it should apply to the other set.

 

---------- Post added 06-11-2017 at 21:20 ----------

 

 

Notwithstanding that most millionaires still pay multiple times into the public purse than any other earners they are the least likely to use an NHS hospital and will offset their burden even more by PAYING for their own private healthcare and hospital treatment.

 

What is your point exactly.

 

Our friend penny isnt a multi millionaire and is self confessed tax evader, smoking smuggled fags. Do the sums.

[El Cid]

"Catch" doing what? This is the whole point.

 

 

Actors from the BBC sitcom Mrs Brown’s Boys used a complicated web of offshore companies and trusts to avoid paying tax on their earnings, documents from the Paradise Papers reveal.

 

The scheme is similar to the kind that was used by the comedian Jimmy Carr – and it appears to have allowed them to save thousands of pounds in income tax.

Jimmy Carr no longer uses the tax dodging methods, so why is this not been called illegal, since HMRC have encountered it before?

 

---------- Post added 06-11-2017 at 22:31 ----------

 

It seems that they are registering their jets abroad too, saving loads on VAT, a Professor from Leeds uni says this is shocking.

They are fiddling taxes left, right and center.

[Waldo]

You know full well the answer to that because its exactly the same way that 99% of society exists.

 

Our entire existance in the settlements we now call towns and cities. Our entire existance in the lives we lead. Our entire existance as a mordern society has been developed through centuries of just that.

 

Violence, murder and thievery.

 

You seriously going to pile all that on the current incumbent of Royals?

 

Perhaps you should give up your home and place in society because for all you know it was created by way of murder and stealing land by one your relatives 300 years ago eh?

 

Civilisation is a bitch init.

 

I would imagine very few people have advanced themselves and their families (in terms of wealth, power, influence) through violence, robbery and political manoeuvring so ruthlessly and adeptly as have the so called royal families. Nowadays of course, its more down to good PR that helps cements their position in society.

 

I don't know about you, but I can't say I'm a fan of people who advance themselves in ways that cause serious detriment (death, destitution, etc) to other people. I like it better when people are rewarded for enhancing the lives of others.

 

To be fair though, they are not individually responsible for the misdeeds of their ancestors. Even so, I just don't feel compelled to celebrate their existence or buy in to the whole fiction of royalty, like some people do.

 

---------- Post added 07-11-2017 at 01:12 ----------

 

On second thoughts, maybe I have it all wrong; selfishness (ruthless self advancement without consideration for others / kill them if they get in your way) is the way of nature, and the way forwards?....

[Cyclone]

Surely those dealing in millions are easier to catch, and more worth while for the authorities.

 

You can't "catch" someone doing something legal. Investing in an offshore fund is not in any way "catchable".

 

If there are schemes similar to the one that Jimmy Carr was involved in, then some people are probably going to get a large tax bill, HMRC will take some time to declare retrospectively illegal though.

 

Lewis Hamilton actually lives in Monaco, so his tax "dodging" has been to leave the country. How can you legislate against people going to live where there are lower tax rates?

Edited November 7, 2017 by Cyclone

[I1L2T3]

Trouble for what exactly?

 

Nothing illegal last time I checked. In fact, I bet if any of us could be bothered to take the time to check each and every single investment, batched fund or stock we have in our own pensions, we would find links to such schemes and companies.

 

All blown out of proportion with these so called "investigative journalists" giving each other glad hands over disclosure of information which is quite frankly nobody's business.

 

Notwithstanding that Lizzie's apportionment in such LEGAL schemes is minimal anyway, certain newspapers have even gone so far as to "shame" her for investing in perfectly accepted and operating british companies such as Bright House , just because SOME people have questioned their corporate morals.

 

God sake. Talk about overreaction.

 

Its about time they stop chasing the easy headlines and expose the REAL corruption and illegal activity in the world.

 

I don’t think that you’re right to say it doesn’t matter, or that we shouldn’t be concerned about this.

 

Because it’s legal (lets ignore the role of tax havens in bent money for now) that does not mean it is right. Countries around the world are already changing tax laws in response to the Panama papers.

 

The correct response iis not to brush this under the carpet, but rather to have open debate about whether it should continue. Do we as a country want to be a hub for global tax avoidance, and how do we pay for our services for example.

[Jim Hardie]

Not only is Hamilton doing his best to destroy the planet with his private jet's global warming emissions, but he avoids paying tax because he knows it goes to help fund the NHS.

 

So now we know what motivates top sportsmen. Probably the daftest statement I've ever read on Sheffield Forum.

[I1L2T3]

You can't "catch" someone doing something legal. Investing in an offshore fund is not in any way "catchable".

 

If there are schemes similar to the one that Jimmy Carr was involved in, then some people are probably going to get a large tax bill, HMRC will take some time to declare retrospectively illegal though.

 

Lewis Hamilton actually lives in Monaco, so his tax "dodging" has been to leave the country. How can you legislate against people going to live where there are lower tax rates?

 

That’s not strictly true. You can catch people for what they they thought was legal avoidance when it actually turns out to be evasion, or contrary to the GAAR. As you say HMRC has the power to restrispectively declare avoidance schemes as illegal and then chase people for payment.

 

The crux of this is the way avoidance schemes are registered. They are created, registered with HMRC, then assessed later and that is often after many months of operation. People using them can end up in bother, and as I said sometimes it turns out they are actually using illegal tax evasion schemes.

[ECCOnoob]

That’s not strictly true. You can catch people for what they they thought was legal avoidance when it actually turns out to be evasion, or contrary to the GAAR. As you say HMRC has the power to restrispectively declare avoidance schemes as illegal and then chase people for payment.

 

The crux of this is the way avoidance schemes are registered. They are created, registered with HMRC, then assessed later and that is often after many months of operation. People using them can end up in bother, and as I said sometimes it turns out they are actually using illegal tax evasion schemes.

 

Thats fine. I have no argumet with that.

 

So WHEN and only when such time arises that a scheme is retrospectively declared evasion it will of course be up to those individuals to do the right thing and pay what is owed. If they dont then they are open for attack.

 

However, UNTIL that happens these schemes remsin perfectly legal. Therefore what right has these so called jounalists got to disclose someones private information and drag their finances, name and reputation through the mud for doing nothing wrong.